I want to know

[Anastacia42]

Good! That was simple.

This exercise is one of my favorites. I would prefer to do with an Olympic sport like gymnastics, but use whatever you like.

Sports Exercise

Please note that you will have to check the link when using this exercise, to make sure it is still viable, as sometimes they are removed from Youtube.

The following link is a 7 minute clip of a soccer game. If you prefer another sport…please feel free to find one to do this exercise with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy5pL-myDzw

1. Watch one minute with the sound turned OFF, watching ‘people’ messing about with a round thing on a field, up and down, up and down. Let it sink in, the whole experience.

2. Once the first minute is completed, now watch another whole minute with the commentary turned ON.

Notice the differences. Notice how the commentator (thought) offers lots of know-how, even advice. It seems to feel as though they can influence, somehow, what is going on, as though one outcome is much preferred to the opposite outcome. The commentary may seem to heighten any supporter feelings which are there, and call for an identification with one team or other, and with the importance of the game itself.

3. Now turn the volume OFF AGAIN and just watch the action with NO audible commentary, the shapes moving around on the screen etc. Again notice all the differences in what is appearing as experience.

4. Now turn the volume ON again and ignore what you think you know thought is talking about, and just notice it as sound.

What did you find when doing this exercise?

Is the commentary on the soccer game a necessity for the play to happen?

And in the same way, is the inner narration of thought a necessity for the play of life to happen?



Fun, huh?

Loving,

[LesaD]

Hello!

What did you find when doing this exercise?

I thoroughly enjoyed watching without sound! It was like a ballet or digital art piece. When the sound was on, I was distracted and irritated. I felt that there was harsh competitiveness and I wanted to sock the announcer in the teeth. Haha! I enjoyed it again when the sound was off. I was able to disassociate from the words some, but thought it would be great to listen to it announced in a foreign language I don’t understand. Then I would just get the excitement and crowd roaring, the tone of voice for let down, etc. I think it was a bit better without concentrating on what was being said, though.

Is the commentary on the soccer game a necessity for the play to happen?

No. And in this case, it actually got in the way of enjoying the experience.

And in the same way, is the inner narration of thought a necessity for the play of life to happen?

No. Just thought of my earliest memory. I was about a year to year and half old and everyone was trying to get me to use words. I was so annoyed because I thought communication was so much easier, quicker, and clearer without them. Isn’t that a hoot?! I remember I thought all the time, it was just wordless thinking.

But I wonder about things like a conversation I had tonight with a man who runs an art show I do here in town, where I live. I called him and asked for specifics about the auction. I was making a decision about whether to enter some pieces of mine. The conversation had to happen in order for the decision to be made. Words had to be exchanged for the play of life to keep happening. But then, that was not “inner” narration. However, I did have a bit of inner narration before I called him, as I thought about what to ask and what I wanted. I guess some inner narration does need to happen, some of the time, for the play of life to happen.

Thanks, kid! This IS fun!
Lesa

[Anastacia42]

Gooooood morning!

Glad "you" are enjoying it! Almost sent an exercise about observing the gap between thoughts. It is a good practice on how to LOOK when LOOKING to see whether there is a "self." Might send that next, but since your post talked about decisions, let's do this one first:

I was making a decision

Let's check that assumption with the following exercise. There are a couple on this one. It can be challenging to let go of the assumption that "we" "do" or "control" or "decide" and SEE what is Actual Experience. Remember what you know about Thought Arising and content of thought as you go through this.


Decisions, Choices & Control Exercises

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:-
How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought

MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?


Loving,

[LesaD]

Hi Kid.

I'm afraid you're going to think I'm a pain in the neck, but I have to answer truthfully as I see it.

How is the movement controlled?

A command is given, and then the conscious awareness of what I call a sense-thought comes up. Much of the time I know it’s going to happen, speed up, slow down, milliseconds before it does, though it's usually at the same time, or I recognize after, that what I requested, happened. There are no “word-thoughts”. This does not necessarily mean, to me, that nothing is making the command, it just means my brain is too slow to become conscious of the decision before the movement starts.

Does a thought control it?

Not a “word-thought” but a “sense-thought”. This is the same kind of thinking I did pre-verbally, as a toddler. I believe animals think this way, too. In fact, I’d say we all think this way, but don’t always recognize it because the “word-thoughts” are so dominant.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No, not located. But “associated” with this body.

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

I can’t track it, my brain is too slow, but I RECOGNIZE that the movement is what “I” requested, when it happens.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

The consciousness operating through this body chose it. I call it Lesa/I/me.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

I can’t definitively say that the consciousness is separate from anything else, just that it is operating in an individuated way through this body.

Love,
Lesa

[Anastacia42]

Hi Lesa,

Not a pain in the neck. Just more LOOKING to do. Remember Colored Socks?

Can you see how you're still answering from the mind, rather than from SEEING and how these are content of thought?

How is the movement controlled?
A command is given,

LOOK When and how is some command given? Who or what gives it?


Answer those & then try this:


Finding the Gap

This exercise has a dual purpose. Firstly, to become aware of each and every though as they appear.

Secondly, the careful looking for the gap is an example of how carefully to look when looking for the ‘separate self’.

Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts.

First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close your eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.

1. Notice the current thought that is present. Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.

2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

3. Then wait for the next thought to come.

4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

This is how to look at thoughts:-

Looking how they come and go, and Observing the short gap between them. Noticing how the current thought is passing. And waiting for the next thought to come.

Please do the following exercise:

Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

Reply with what is found.


Loving,

[LesaD]

Hi Stacy

Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

Reply with what is found.

At first, the gaps were almost imperceptible to me. The thoughts seemed to overlap. After a while, the gaps became a bit bigger. I notice how random the subject of the thoughts is. It bounces from one thing to another and there is often music and singing mixed in with the thoughts. If I focus on one, even for a second, more thoughts about that subject come. If not, they just quickly pass to something else. I notice that something is observing the observing.

Lesa

[LesaD]

Oops!

I forgot to transfer these answers:

Can you see how you're still answering from the mind, rather than from SEEING and how these are content of thought?

Uh, yes. Jeez! So bloody habitual!

How is the movement controlled?
A command is given,
LOOK When and how is some command given? Who or what gives it?

Don’t see any command given. Don’t see how or when. Don’t see anyone who gives it.

Me

[Anastacia42]

Hiya!

Good noticing! Let's do some more.

LOOK closely. Pay no attention to what thought says. LOOK

Yes, this is a bit more of the same. But it's the act of LOOKING that will show you what you're here to see. We will LOOK until you SEE.

For a moment take note of exactly what is being experienced in this moment:

​Notice all sound, all sensation, all smell, all taste, all color. ​Notice how you're making absolutely no effort to be aware of them. ​And notice that you're not making them happen. You're not conducting the orchestra of experience that you're aware of.

And notice that thought is exactly the same as the rest of experience. You're effortlessly aware of it, but you're not orchestrating it. You're not even orchestrating the thoughts which say that you're able to orchestrate thoughts.

Observe thought closely. Try to determine what your next thought is going to be before it appears. Can you do this? Isn’t a thought only known as it appears? In that case, can you possibly claim to be in control of the thinking process, the thoughts, choices or impulses that arise, unless you can somehow instigate them beforehand?

In the same way, the story of "me" can seem to have continuity.

Is it really continuous? Or are there simply isolated thoughts that never can truly touch each other, some of them claiming that there's one continuous story? What is SEEN?

Found it amusing you signed "Me."

Loving,

[LesaD]

Hi Friend!

Observe thought closely. Try to determine what your next thought is going to be before it appears. Can you do this?

No.

Isn’t a thought only known as it appears?

Yes.

In that case, can you possibly claim to be in control of the thinking process, the thoughts, choices or impulses that arise, unless you can somehow instigate them beforehand?

I don’t see how I could be in control of them.

In the same way, the story of "me" can seem to have continuity.

Is it really continuous?

No, it is definitely not continuous.

Or are there simply isolated thoughts that never can truly touch each other, some of them claiming that there's one continuous story?

There are only isolated thoughts, many with a similar theme.

What is SEEN?

Random crap happening all over the place and something here trying to piece it together to make sense. OMG! It actually does a pretty good job of making it make sense, I must say. Without looking closely, it's easy to be fooled.

Found it amusing you signed "Me."

Hahaha! That’s hilarious!

It :)~

[Anastacia42]

Hi Lesa,

So, yes . . .

What is SEEN?
Random crap happening all over the place and something here trying to piece it together to make sense. OMG! It actually does a pretty good job of making it make sense, I must say. Without looking closely, it's easy to be fooled.

Found it amusing you signed "Me."
Hahaha! That’s hilarious!

It :)~

Yep, that's pretty much it.

Here is another exercise to play with. Be sure to LOOK and ignore the content of thought as much as possible. LOOKING will help you SEE. (Sounds obvious, but it isn't - right?)

Drink Exercise

The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice can really
be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear
example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

Here's what’s needed - a chair, a table and two different drinks. Any two drinks you like are
okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.

Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably
on the chair and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.

Experiment - Finding the function of choice

Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel
ready:

1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like
about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is
manifesting for one or the other.

2. Count to 5.

3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:

Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing
the ‘choosing’.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or
did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’
these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers
took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down
the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience a mental function
or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a
mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am
the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the
‘choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to
‘choose’?



As usual, have fun!

Loving,

[LesaD]

Hey Stacy

This is good stuff, but tough!

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities?

No

Or did they kind of appear by themselves?

By themselves

If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

They popped up by themselves.

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

The mind going from one to the other and a choice being made, was observed, but I could not see a chooser.

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’?

No.

Have you seen this function in action?

I have not seen it.

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’?

No.

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?

No.

This is still very hard for me. I have to really focus and re-read the directions to only "see, hear, tough, smell, taste, and observe thoughts arising", or I instantly go back to the content of thoughts.

Love,
Lesa

[Anastacia42]

Good morning!

I just stumbled across this. Watch it. I'm fixing breakfast and I'll look at your replies soon.

https://youtu.be/khXS_nSuvx8

Loving,

[LesaD]

Hey there!

I listened to the Katie Youtube. And I've listened to it in the past. I'm very familiar with Katie's work and did it for years, still do at times. I love her, but I have a tendency to go deeper into the mind with her work. It almost makes me feel that there's some answer in thinking things out, and my instincts tell me that's not true. I know she says, "investigate your thoughts and they let go of you" and that is true, in my experience, but it takes investigating EACH though. Holy cow! They're endless. I think Nisargadatta called this kind of thing, "sifting through the garbage". I'd like to SEE and know at the deepest level, that no thoughts are true and just be able to disregard them, unless I'm planning/problem-solving, etc. I'm a fan of Jed McKenna, David Carse, Tony Parsons. Those who are very blunt and straight forward about what's really happening/not happening.

I've been experiencing a lot of stress the last couple of days. I've had similar experiences before when I've gotten "close" to dropping the ego's stranglehold. It's helping some to LOOK and see that there's really nothing going on but very simple, basic actions (and a lot of overlaid mind garbage). But it's still not the norm for me. Yet!! :)

Love,
Lesa

[Anastacia42]

Oh dear, that's not the link I meant to send at all. It was probably stuck on my clipboard. Sorry!

Let me go back & find the right one!

https://youtu.be/hy2DXK7JQyM


Okay, it looks like I copied the right one this time.

As much as I love the work of Byron Katie, and I am an admin on 2 groups about that, I am not allowed to talk about it here. Yes, you can wake up with the work of Byron Katie. But that's not what is done here.

That should be a One Spaciousness video.

Thanks!

[Anastacia42]

Hi Lesa!

You're doing great work LOOKING & catching when you get caught up in content of thought.

This is still very hard for me. I have to really focus and re-read the directions to only "see, hear, tough, smell, taste, and observe thoughts arising", or I instantly go back to the content of thoughts.

Understandable! And yet, it is the simplest, most natural thing in the world.

I've been experiencing a lot of stress the last couple of days.

Relaxation is generally required in order to SEE. Do not strain. If you find yourself straining too much, take a break.

This one can be relaxing.

Stream Exercise

Imagine for a moment a scene, one of a little mountain stream which is tumbling down a hillside gully, not far from its source. It has been raining and so the level is quite high.

Consider in your mind's eye, if you can, how it flows to the right over a little rock (where, had the level been lower, it would probably have gone around the rock), then the flow goes to the left over a tree bow, and then slows a little in a broader place, before splashing over
a small cascade into a pool, and so on down the mountain side.

Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or more the product of weather conditions and water, like an ever-changing pattern?

1. Can you find anywhere where "Lesa" autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements; that is not a part of the overall flow?

2. Now please consider a regular decision made eg; what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are colour preferences (but where did those come from - any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg; need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!) etc. Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can
you find someone somewhere?

Loving,