Think i'm ready for the change

[Bharat]

Yes , good point, it's a desire to be in a happier state! the self is playing games with the self, how amazing are thoughts! Will investigate further, thanks again for your time and patience.

[Eloratea]

No problem. I am glad if possible to provide any help.

Just look whatever arises and question if it is a self?
Thoughts are no longer such a problem if they are not "MY" thoughts.

[Bharat]

Ok, it's taken a while to get to this point, but I think I'm almost back to the beginning of getting back to an inbetween understanding (i.e intellectually/viscerally) regarding the self.

Last week was a case of only feeling/seeing the self as me, now it's moved to the self as thoughts and hopefully back to the realisation of no self.

I'm recognising feeling/emotions etc as they come up and realise that they do belong to the self/Bharat, so it's easier to handle /drop them.

Any way i'll keep you posted my progress.

[Eloratea]

So, what is self? Is it real? Is it to be found in reality of direct experience here and now?
Is there any solid entity to be identified with? Or it is just a play of thoughts?

What do you mean by feelings belonging to the self?

Regards.

[Bharat]

The self is a set thoughts that point to what thinks is a real character, the self doesn't exist as an entity that can be seen or felt, it's not solid. Thoughts arising to defend its own existence ,even though it's all thougts! ,but the self is only thoughts.

There seems to be separation when it comes to thinking about the self and the genuine self, the self is the made is character with its thoughts and attached belief, where as in the genuine self is the noself -no attachments to any particular beliefs.

[Eloratea]

I am not sure how clear it is there.
Do you exist? Is there you in any way or form?

[Bharat]

There is no form to the self/Bharat , but only a set of thoughts that think it is a self/whole. Even though it's a single thoughts, it seems to be connected to a million other thoughts that seem to make the whole idea of the self, even though I only think one thought at a time!

[Eloratea]

Is there a thinker of the thoughts, or they come and go, one at the time?

Be well

[Bharat]

who is the thinker of the thought

Thoughts are arising according what is being observed or focued on.

Does the self exist, only as a thought , not solid, but thoughts hold the belief that are filtering the current oberservation/awareness (i.e whatever is being experienced directly).

If self only exists in thoughts and thoughts arise by themselves , then self is not needed, as it does not think but is just a thought that thinks it is a entity, but that too is an illusion of thoughts.

Hmmm....thoughts are going round in circles....

[Eloratea]

then self is not needed, as it does not think but is just a thought that thinks it is a entity, but that too is an illusion of thoughts.

How can any thought think?
They are all the same, innocent thoughts passing by.
Focus on direct experience, pure sensation, is there a thinker, any kind of self, except pure presence, awareness between and behind the thoughts?

[Bharat]

Hi,

Been thinking/looking, but still no joy, still have a sense of self and beliefs stay intact , even though they belong to an illusionary self.

Read some books, Jed Mck, (been to noself.com site, read that butterfly book, hasnt help trigger the process, as I understand it intellectually, but not kicking in (as it did once back in april - that was temporary it seems).

[Bharat]

Hi,

I was reading one of Ilona thread this weekend (What is not automatic) and the person had a similiar experience to myself , where I thought I had lost the noself(!), but then I returned to my normal self(!) after a week or so.


So while I was reading the thread and answering/looking , I got a glimmer of the noself , thought stopped for a moment, then it all shifted to a ton of emotions, mostly negative (powerlessness,being a victim, hopelessness), this is where I got stuck.

Each time this happens, it seems the interest in finding(!) the noself lessens.

Anyway i'm still the self and with even less interest in realising the noself, again this is all a thought, so i'll need to delibrately focus on this more.

[Eloratea]

So while I was reading the thread and answering/looking , I got a glimmer of the noself , thought stopped for a moment, then it all shifted to a ton of emotions, mostly negative (powerlessness,being a victim, hopelessness), this is where I got stuck.

Emotions come and go. Isn't that so?
Do they mean that there is a self?

Each time this happens, it seems the interest in finding(!) the noself lessens.

Who is interested or not interested in finding no-self?
There is no no-self, same as there is no self. They are both just concepts.
It is just what is - here and now.

Anyway i'm still the self and with even less interest in realizing the noself, again this is all a thought, so i'll need to deliberately focus on this more.

You are not the self :) you, yours, self are just thoughts and concepts. Labels for the life processes.
On what there needs to be more focus?
Try to keep it clear and simple and let the feelings, emotions arise, as they do. Don't add special significance to them and unnecessary story.

Best wishes.

[Bharat]

Emotions come and go. Isn't that so?

==
Emotions come up in response to the situations - mostly automatically. The emotions relate or link to a so called self - even though this is a thought as such.
===

===
Do they mean that there is a self?

Not necessarily, but the emotions seems to affect the so called self , they are not passing through as such, more linked to the self somehow through some previous experience /memory.
===



====
Who is interested or not interested in finding no-self? Damn you got me on this one!!! No one! but it feels like there is a self somewhere in my head again
===
There is no no-self, same as there is no self. They are both just concepts. belief is self seem
It is just what is - here and now.
===
The above is the concept that stil lfeels real, even though its thoughts ideas,concepts, still not 100% felt, even though there have been 2 close incidents of recognising the noself/etc.
====
You are not the self :) you, yours, self are just thoughts and concepts. Labels for the life processes.
On what there needs to be more focus?

more focus on looking rather then thinking and focusing more on now ,
rather then past/futures events in the mind.

=====
Try to keep it clear and simple and let the feelings, emotions arise, as they do. Don't add special significance to them and unnecessary story.
====

There seems to be an apetite to make it into a drama sometimes, when nothing is required.

[Eloratea]

Emotions come up in response to the situations - mostly automatically. The emotions relate or link to a so called self - even though this is a thought as such.

See what happens with emotions if they are not labeled as yours. If they are just felt and thoughts not unconditionally believed.

Who is interested or not interested in finding no-self? Damn you got me on this one!!! No one! but it feels like there is a self somewhere in my head again

There is a sense of self, but is there a self in head? Is there a thinker a controller of life there?

On what there needs to be more focus?

more focus on looking rather then thinking and focusing more on now ,
rather then past/futures events in the mind.

No, there is no need to force to focus on anything. Just follow where the attention is placed naturally. Nothing needs to be manipulated to see the reality, as it already is.
Let go of trying to control life.

There seems to be an apetite to make it into a drama sometimes, when nothing is required.

Yes, it is a pattern of behavior. Upon clearly seeing it, its mechanism, it stops to be a problem.

Is there you anywhere, in this experience now?