The Gate

Dear Anastacia
I hope you don't mind calling you like that, never asked you so please let me know if it bothers you and I will stop.
I definitely enjoy your companion and guidance, I find it very helpful and thought-provoking. I appreciate very much that you made me look deeper. I am not in rush at all, unless you would like to pick up a new "guidee" .
Wouldn't mind getting to those juicy subjects. Wonder what could be the final questions but i will know when its time, so let's move onwards.
Thanks
Best wishes
Csaba

Good ( insert illusion of time here),

We'll get to time later... Hahaha. Right now let's look at the body.

Oh and yes it's fine to call me Anastacia. I like that name. My mother explains that she had to modernize it by giving me Stacy Ann. I like your name also. What is your native language?

Thank you. I love guiding. This is what I do for fun.

So let's look at this one...

Introductory Body Exercise

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.

Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?

Does the body have a weight or volume?

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside? ;)

If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?

If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.


Much love!

Dear Anastacia

I thought your name is Anastacia and Stacy is just a shorter form. Sorry, do you mind if i keep call you like that?
My native language is Hungarian i was born there, my name is a traditional Hungarian name/label/. I live in the UK for about 6-7 years.

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Not by sitting and sensing the body.

Does the body have a weight or volume?
No

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
No, we don't know.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
No

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
No

Is there an inside or an outside? ;)
well, we have an inner body sensation, rumbling stomach, throbbing heart, etc.

If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
Inside is what under the surface of the skin. organs

If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?
It there is an inside it shall have outside but there is not, the body is connected with everything

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
body is a sensor, receiver of impulses,

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
an unclear hazy sensation.

the body is not known innately, we need to learn, study and dissect to have knowledge about it. We don't know after birth that we have two bones in my lower leg and one in the upper etc. The whole anatomy is unknown until we learn it.

The body is not separate - the actual experience can't be not experienced.

Hi Csaba,

I used to work with a Hungarian woman. She counseled children. I liked her a lot.

One thing I would like you to do before your next post, please, is to learn to use the quote function. That was in the first instructions, but let's review that, please, okay? It will make you replies much easier to read.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660&p=12593#p12593


Yes, it is fine to call me Anastacia. I like the name. Names don't matter. My own guide was in the habit of putting an "e" in Stacy, which bugs me, but I gave up on it.

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Not by sitting and sensing the body.

Does the body have a weight or volume?
No

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
No, we don't know.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
No

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
No

All of those above are correct and based on Actual Experience.

But the ones below... Were you basing your answers on Actual Direct Experience?

Is there an inside or an outside? ;)
well, we have an inner body sensation, rumbling stomach, throbbing heart, etc.

This answer surprised me a lot, because in your original post, you posted that you had had an experience sometime ago of the outside being inside and the inside being outside, as of the distinction.

Why is it different for your body in this question?

If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
Inside is what under the surface of the skin. organs

What is the AE?

If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?
It there is an inside it shall have outside but there is not, the body is connected with everything

YES... keep checking Actual/Direct Experience

Do you remember the six items that are actual experience? The only six items?

IWhat does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
body is a sensor, receiver of impulses,

Where do you find "sensor, receiver of impulses" in Actual Experience? ImCan actually be found? Or is it a label we made up and cannot be found? Would a three-year-old know these words as an actual experience? Or would they have to be taught to them?

[quoteWhat is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
an unclear hazy sensation. [/quote]

SENSATION -yes

But where do you find "unclear" or "hazy" in actual experience?

Can you see it, hear it, don't touch it, smell it, taste it or is it just thought arising and some label of "inclear" or "hazy" that is content/story that we have to believe and cannot really see?

the body is not known innately, we need to learn, study and dissect to have knowledge about it. We don't know after birth that we have two bones in my lower leg and one in the upper etc. The whole anatomy is unknown until we learn it.

What do we know about things that have to be learned? Are they actual experience?

The body is not separate - the actual experience can't be not experienced.

And yes, you are back to actual experience again here.

Look over these and please reply to the questions in blue.

Much love,

Dear Anastacia

I am always glad to hear that people have a pleasant association with that little country I was born. I am dipped, rolled, and marinated in its culture, but in AE it is just accumulated sweet nothings.
I was lazy yesterday and I did not use the quote system -sorry.

Personal note:
I had an experience which came from the reflective quality of the mind. I looked at an apple and I saw that there is an apple which is real and i saw my mind creates an apple in my inner world. That was the starting point, and then i saw that cant be two sides, one is imaginary. In the matter of fact, the two are one. This led me to direct experience and to realise that whatever it is, that is my experience and I became nothing else than the experience itself. This was the point when i understood meditation. From the limited self to a selfless experience which can take any form, I thought its everything. /till last week you showed me its nothing as well/.
To see that I am not my body wasn't difficult for me. The inside and outside was a mental concept which fell apart. I always thought that the body just transmitting the experience. When I was studying artistic anatomy, it was hard and I thought if I would be my body I surely would know about the bone structure, muscles, and functions.
This is not me fighting that the body is real, it is me checking the exercise you gave me.

Is there an inside or an outside?

I closed my I eyes and placed my palm on my chest and relaxed as you asked.
I felt my chest with my palm - sensation
I felt my palm on my chest -sensation
I felt my heart beating with my palm -sensation
I felt my heart beating inside my chest-sensation
I felt the pulsing blood in my finger -sensation
I know all of them are sensations but some feels deeper than the other.
The same is with pain.
The different sensation I meant inside feeling.
Now again I had no problem seeing that I am not the body, but did the enquiry. I did write there is no outside in the next part, but some sensations differ from each other.

IWhat does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
body is a sensor, receiver of impulses,

This is a wired way of expressing myself, in actual experience it is the sensation.

But where do you find "unclear" or "hazy" in actual experience?

Yes, you are right, sorry again. Too much description. I compared to vision, unnecessary detail.

What do we know about things that have to be learned? Are they actual experience?

Actual experience is what we experience not what we learned.

Thank you this is all useful,
Best wishes
Csaba

Hi Csaba!

Yes, good work! You are seeing actual experience and differentiating it from the content of thought and the labels and stories we made up.

Do be careful how you write about it. I need to be able to understand what you see and what you don't see, so I can guide effectively.

This led me to direct experience and to realise that whatever it is, that is my experience and I became nothing else than the experience itself. This was the point when i understood meditation. From the limited self to a selfless experience which can take any form, I thought its everything. /till last week you showed me its nothing as well/.

Beautiful. Love those times. And they come and go.

Okay, there are a couple of other body exercises I could share, but you seem to have the idea.

Let's look at time and then maybe at memory.

Time Exercise

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

As usual, please use the quote function and answer each question under the quote. This makes it much easier for me to understand what you have said.

Thank you!

Much love,

Dear Anastacia

Thank you, the body is clear, today I was spending some time going through it again and I found that my understanding is deepened.
Let's check the time:

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?

There is no such an experience, actually, the time doesn't fit in the 6 experience categories.

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

No, there is only a flow.

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

No, can't separate, can't cut - one flow

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

It isn't moving it is.

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

No

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Now is eternal, or it is only is - the question suggest future which is not real.

Where does the ‘now’ start, and beginning its end?

No beginning, no end only present.

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

There is no past

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

There is no past in actual experience.
So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?
No, it is a concept.

Have a lovely day
Csaba

Hi Csaba,

While there are an infinite number of exercise variations one can go through in this seeing of no self, no body, no time, no decision maker or control, etc., in my opinion, you are "cooked."

If there is something you want to explore more right now or afterwards, certainly you/we can do that. There may be some specific life areas that challenge you. Maybe experiences you have questions about. All of that may be discussed at any time.

Would you like to try answering the final questions? If nothing else, it will show us what might not be completely clear and we can move forward from there. If all of those are clear, further exploration can continue on this forum, on Facebook, etc. wherever you would like.

If so, please quote each question & post your answer below each one. Take your time, be thorough and concise so that it is clear what you SEE when you LOOK at these. Be sure to cover each question. I will be running it by others for confirmation & further questions to see if anything was missed. When confirmed, you will receive a Private Message (top right corner) inviting you to Aftercare and other ways to connect with people, which was one of your original goals. Questions & answers can continue there. I am Stacy Ann Clark on Facebook.


1) Is there a separate entity "self," "me," "I," at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving you!

Dear Anastacia
Bowing
Thank you so much for your help, here i my answers:

1) Is there a separate entity "self," "me," "I," at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No there is not and past tense is not needed, as there is no past.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

There is NO separate self in the actual experience and there is NO separation.
Anything other than the present direct experience is separation and the realm of thoughts. The separate self can't exist in the actual experience but in the imagination yes. After it is exposed its power declines even in the thought realm. The present moment is always safe and free from the self.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels great, though my major realisation happened earlier, I was surprised when my lovely guide showed me the depth of the emptiness. I had no expectations and still found many deepening experiences. I feel grateful, humbled and happy. With the deeper realisation, it is easier to stay with the present moment or to return to it when I forget it. The emotions are lost form their saturation and easier to control them. Time will tell. Sorry presence shall tell. I found an amazing place with amazing people. Thank You LU and Thank YOU Anastacia!

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

My kind and lovely Guide

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

The decision, the intention, the choice
In the larger sense, they don't matter. In actual experience, it is just a step taken plus lots of thought content.
The decision, the intention, the choice is only possible if there is a role or an entity behind it and it he/she try to select the most beneficial option for the future. The future is unknown and it is a speculation. If there is no self things work out naturally. This is the position of acceptance. Taking action or no action is a dilemma. I prefer actions but accept no action as well. Then again in the larger sense, they don't matter as any step was taken in any direction would be ok. There is, of course, the role of a human being which sets a moral standard after realising the unity. Knowing that all living creatures are connected and one, that human being could become a celebration of life and fills up with compassion.

Free will, control.
In direct experience, there is no control and no free will. It is only the flowing of life. We have the capacity to direct our attention, to move our body. But it doesn't mean we are in control. If there is unity, it doesn't matter where you go and what you focus on it is still unity and presence. Things happen, thoughts arise naturally by itself, there is no will, and everything is free.
The self is trying to control, to secure everything but that only can happen in thoughts. Freedom means selflessness.

What makes things happen?

I am happy to stay silent with this one and not label it.

What are you responsible for?

I am responsible for staying present. There are many roles one have to take on and many that one can let go. Knowing there is no self, will loosen any solid identifications with any role. But being a human is a role to keep. Some content here: One of my favourite heroes is the German poet Goethe who after his 50's decided to become a scholar. He turned from literature to science to put himself to the service of humankind. To me being a human is to serve humankind. That service could manifest in many ways some are more powerful than the other. Human beings have the capacity to recognise no self, and every healthy human at any time could realise this.

Thanks for all again, best wishes
Cs

Hi Csaba,

You are quite kind. Very good. Just a few clarifying questions, ok?

On question 2, could you please cover this part:

when it starts and how it works from your own experience.

As before, please use quotes and be clear, thorough and concise. I will be running this by others for confirmation.

The emotions are lost form their saturation and easier to control them.

On question 3, thank you & can you please explain who or what has control and how?

Your answer to question 4 is very sweet.

When you had your major realization, was there something that pushed you over then and made you look? Was there anything in particular, any instruction you were following that made you look deeper and see more emptiness now? I appreciate the credit, but I wasn't there when it happened. So what happened?

The answer to question 5 tells me that maybe we need to do a few more exercises about decision, free-will, and control. I found a little hard to follow what you wrote. It's not your English, your language is fine.

The decision, the intention, the choice
In the larger sense, they don't matter. In actual experience, it is just a step taken plus lots of thought content.

The decision, the intention, the choice is only possible if there is a role or an entity behind it and it he/she try to select the most beneficial option for the future. The future is unknown and it is a speculation. If there is no self things work out naturally. This is the position of acceptance. Taking action or no action is a dilemma. I prefer actions but accept no action as well. Then again in the larger sense, they don't matter as any step was taken in any direction would be ok. There is, of course, the role of a human being which sets a moral standard after realising the unity. Knowing that all living creatures are connected and one, that human being could become a celebration of life and fills up with compassion.

So, is there any entity behind it?

Free will, control.
In direct experience, there is no control and no free will.

That is true. There is none, so why then did you write...

We have the capacity to direct our attention, to move our body.

Do we? Look closely. Can you describe exactly how you do this?

What makes things happen?

I am happy to stay silent with this one and not label it.

I understand the temptation, but it does need an answer.


What are you responsible for?

I am responsible for staying present.

How can this be if there is no self?

There are many roles one have to take on and many that one can let go. Knowing there is no self, will loosen any solid identifications with any role. But being a human is a role to keep. Some content here: One of my favourite heroes is the German poet Goethe who after his 50's decided to become a scholar. He turned from literature to science to put himself to the service of humankind. To me being a human is to serve humankind. That service could manifest in many ways some are more powerful than the other. Human beings have the capacity to recognise no self, and every healthy human at any time could realise this.

I know how you love to quote and compare, but please leave these off and just answer the questions, okay? It is important to be able to see what you understand.

This is a very good start. I'm going to post this and then I'm going to post a separate one with an exercise on decision-making and control to help you get clear about that part.

Much love,

Okay, here is the first exercise about decision-making and control. I think you will love it it'll help you see more what is Actual Experience and what is not.


Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.

Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?


Much love,

Hi Anastacia

Up and down are content and i couldn't know without learning, therefore they are not direct experience.

How is the movement controlled?

There are some bodily sensations if we talking about movement, no controller.

Does a thought control it?

Thought could arise but not control in actual experience

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

No, can't find any

How is the decision made to turn the handover? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the handover and the hand turns over immediately.

No decision, a thought could arise but not control in actual experience

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

It would happen automatically, without thinking.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

In direct experience, there is no one, or all one. Either way no choice and no up and down.

Thank you
Cs

Very good, yes. I thought you knew this stuff. So could you look at the post that I put up at 8:40 on Sunday that asked some clarifying questions? You weren't being quite as clear there as you were in this last post.

Please answer those.

Thank you!

Dear Anastacia
Ok, thank you maybe I speak too much. I like that you are thorough. Do you have some exercises for the attention, directing the attention? Would like to investigate that.

1) Is there a separate entity "self," "me," "I," at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No there is not and past tense is not needed.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

There is NO separate self in the actual experience and there is NO separation.
Anything other than the present direct experience is separation and the realm of thoughts. The separate self can't exist in the actual experience. After it is exposed its power declines even in the thought realm.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels great, though my major realisation happened earlier, I was surprised when my lovely guide showed me the depth of the emptiness. I had no expectations and still found many deepening experiences. I feel grateful, humbled and happy. With the deeper realisation, it is easier to stay with the present moment or to return to it when I forget it. The emotions are lost form their saturation and easier to control them. Time will tell. Sorry presence shall tell. I found an amazing place with amazing people. Thank You LU and Thank YOU, Stacy Ann!

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

My kind and lovely guide

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
The decision, the intention, the choice, the free will and control all not part of the direct experience. In the actual experience there is no self, no person, therefore all the above are just the illusion. Life is happening by itself.

What makes things happen?

Does it need a label?

What are you responsible for?

I am responsible for staying present.

Thank you again
Best wishes
Cs

Hi Csaba,

That's great. And thank you for putting them all together like that.

There are only a few pieces missing now.

2. Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

Notice that in Question 2, it asks about the *ILLUSION* of the separate self. That does need a reply. You answered the second part and described how you see it now, but what is the illusion, when does it start, and how does it work based on your own experience?

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
My kind and lovely guide

Thank you for this kind answer - and it is really asking what LOOKING or what exercise pushed you into the deeper LOOKING you mentioned? Could you answer that part, please?

What makes things happen?
Does it need a label?

Well, yes, some kind of answer, please? I know that if I post these without that to the other guides, someone is going to ask you to give a fuller answer.

What are you responsible for?
I am responsible for staying present.

If there is no "I" and no decision making or choice - how is it possible for there to be anyone responsible for anything? Take a LOOK at this one again, ok?

The clarification is really for you. We don't want to send you off not quite complete in the understandings. OK?

Thank you so much!

Much love,