Gatecrasher

[forgetmenot]

Hey Jeremy,

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’?
Or only thoughts suggest it?

No, only thoughts suggesting that there is.

Yes and just to affirm that, here is another exercise that helps to see how the illusion of the body is ‘created’, so to speak. Normally we believe that sensation is coming from sight - the object seen. In this example, the object being the ‘hand’.

1. Close the eyes and hold up one hand. Pay attention only to the felt sensation ‘of the hand’.
2. Open the eyes, and now observe the hand by looking only.
3. While looking at the hand, pay attention to the felt sensations.

Is there any link between the sensation and the sight, meaning that the sensation is ‘coming from’ the sight (labelled as hand) or only thoughts and mental constructs link them?

Although ‘visual sight’ and the sensation appear simultaneously but ‘separately’, is either of these coming from the other, and are either contained by the other? Or are they appearing equally, ‘beside’ each other without any hierarchy or link between them?

If you want to, you can repeat this with all of body parts below, one-by-one.
- feet
- legs
- arms
- belly
- chest
- head (looking into the mirror)

Do you have any questions about what we have explored to date? Any questions with regards the body, control, choice, thoughts, actual experience, decisions at all?

With love, Kay

[Beatrice]

Hi Kay,

Is there any link between the sensation and the sight, meaning that the sensation is ‘coming from’ the sight (labelled as hand) or only thoughts and mental constructs link them?

The image and the sensation are separate. There is no link other than those associated thoughts.

Although ‘visual sight’ and the sensation appear simultaneously but ‘separately’, is either of these coming from the other, and are either contained by the other? Or are they appearing equally, ‘beside’ each other without any hierarchy or link between them?

They appear equally beside one another without any link between them.

Do you have any questions about what we have explored to date? Any questions with regards the body, control, choice, thoughts, actual experience, decisions at all?

I do not, your guiding has been very thorough.

Sincerely,
Jeremy

[forgetmenot]

Hey Jeremy,

Okay, so let's move onto the idea of time and then memory.

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time or an event that is moving forward on this linear time, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience that the ’now’ is moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Any actual experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

With love, Kay

[Beatrice]

Hi Kay,

Great exercise; memory is only thought.

But is there an experience that the ’now’ is moving along the line of time?

No, there is only the present. Thoughts create an image of the past and of the future, and organize them in a framework labeled 'time'.

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

No.

Any actual experience of one event following another?

No.

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Fast is a relative term; but there is only the present in AE along with thoughts about the past and the present.

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

No.

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Though AE obviously changes, the present remains.

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

Impossible to tell.

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

Impossible to tell.

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

The 'past' is simply thought.

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

Zero AE, none. There are 'thoughts about the concept of time, but they are only AE of thought.

Sincerely,
Jeremy

[forgetmenot]

Hey Jeremy,

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

Impossible to tell.

It never becomes the past, the past does not exist.

If thought appears saying you ate an ice-cream yesterday….where is ‘yesterday’ in actual experience. When is that thought and images of eating an ice-cream actually appearing?

Have a look at the second hand on a clock. It seems to be changing. But can you find 10 seconds ago in actual experience? 5 seconds? 1 second? Keep noticing that change is always only a story about some experience "prior to this". But only THIS/experience can be found. How could there have been another experience at all? Where has it gone to?


Look into the mirror throughout the day. Body image appears... notice that all that's really there are some colours, and a thought-story saying 'these colours are my body'

When you return to the mirror each time, consider whether these 'body colours' have ever appeared before.

Consider whether this body image + story has ever appeared before - or is this the only time you have ever been aware of these *exact* colours and this exact story about the body?

Can you find any previous appearances of the body? Where are they? If not, how can it be known that the body has appeared before?

Isn't it just an appearance ‘now’ and isn't there only a thought-story claiming you've seen this body before?

Do that for today and report back what you find.

With love, Kay

[Beatrice]

Hi Kay,

If thought appears saying you ate an ice-cream yesterday….where is ‘yesterday’ in actual experience. When is that thought and images of eating an ice-cream actually appearing?

Yesterday doesn't exist in actual experience. The thought and images of eating an ice-cream are appearing in the present.

Have a look at the second hand on a clock. It seems to be changing. But can you find 10 seconds ago in actual experience? 5 seconds? 1 second? Keep noticing that change is always only a story about some experience "prior to this". But only THIS/experience can be found. How could there have been another experience at all? Where has it gone to?

You cannot capture x seconds ago in actual experience. Memories are AE of thought / story. Only THIS/experience can be found. I know of no other experience than the actual one of the present. I would not speculate where it is or isn't.

Consider whether this body image + story has ever appeared before - or is this the only time you have ever been aware of these *exact* colours and this exact story about the body?

Each body image + story is unique to the AE.

Can you find any previous appearances of the body? Where are they? If not, how can it be known that the body has appeared before?

It cannot be found other than in thought. It cannot be known the body has appeared before.

Isn't it just an appearance ‘now’ and isn't there only a thought-story claiming you've seen this body before?

My findings exactly.

Sincerely,
Jeremy

[forgetmenot]

Hey Jeremy,

Have a look at the second hand on a clock. It seems to be changing. But can you find 10 seconds ago in actual experience? 5 seconds? 1 second? Keep noticing that change is always only a story about some experience "prior to this". But only THIS/experience can be found. How could there have been another experience at all? Where has it gone to?

You cannot capture x seconds ago in actual experience. Memories are AE of thought / story. Only THIS/experience can be found. I know of no other experience than the actual one of the present. I would not speculate where it is or isn't.

Lovely....so clear! And this is a great lead in to the next looking exercise!

Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened.
That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.

What is memory exactly? – please don’t go to thought explanation, but just let a memory be there, and look at it…

What is the memory ‘made of’?
WHEN does the memory appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.
What is the future thought ‘made of’?

WHEN does the future thought appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.
What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?
If there is difference, how that difference is known exactly?

Look at what is actually going on and not what thoughts say… but what actually is.

With love, Kay

[Beatrice]

Hi Kay,

What is the memory ‘made of’?

Memory is the AE of thought/stories

WHEN does the memory appear?

In the present

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

Both are AE of thought

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

It isn't.

Then, look at a thought about the future.
What is the future thought ‘made of’?

Future thought is made up of AE of thought /stories

WHEN does the future thought appear?

In the present

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?

Both are AE of thought

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

It isn't.

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.
What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

There really isn't one, they are both AE of thought /stories

If there is difference, how that difference is known exactly?

The stories may differ as AE of thought may differ , but both are still AE of thought happening in the present

Sincerely,
Jeremy

[forgetmenot]

Lovely Jeremy...I have no further questions with regards time or memory.

You have been ready for the final questions for some time now, but it has been good to go through everything to make sure. Can you please answer the following questions with some detail and answer what's true for you right now, rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. Also please provide examples where asked.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
b) What makes things happen? How does it work?
c) What are you responsible for?
d) Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

With love, Kay

[Beatrice]

Hi Kay,

Very grateful for your time in guiding me. Thank you for this.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

There is not and there never was a separate entity 'self', 'me', 'I,' at all, anywhere. It has always been an illusion.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

Sometime during my 3rd year of life I began to contextualize things as relating to a separate self, a 'me'. From that point until a few weeks ago my 'self' was central to my experience in life. Everything happened to 'me' and 'I' happened to everything else. I have come to believe that this illusionary relationship was the source of much suffering. About two days into this path I closed my eyes and took the time to contemplate a very simple question: If 'I' did not exist, and there was no 'self', what would be seen when I open my eyes? And when I did so, the world was much different. It was alive with sensation and I was simply a part of this symphony of life. My awarenss increasaed, my faculties remained in tact, and I was very, very fixated on the incalculable beauty and irrevocable authority of the present reality. It was a moment of sheer amazement. I was initally concerned that I might have broken something in my mind, or fallen down a path of madness, but I went about that night exploring and settling into many realizations stemming from this single initial experience. It was very difficult to manage tasks at work associated with planning or reviewing progress on a work item, but I have learned to manage this by doing what I call 'donning the mask'... meaning that I wear a mask of self to conduct affairs when I must, but I know it is wholly an illusion. I tend to spend every moment of free time I have in a state of no-self admiration, contemplation, and reflection these days, and I feel it is not so distant to the state I was in prior to taking on ideas of self around the age of three.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

It is very liberating. It feels like I have discovered the true nature of my being... and it's a very pleasant suprise! For example, there is no reality to the notion of 'choice'. I can plainly see this when I look. Accepting this and watching life unfold in light of this is very interesting. For me personally, I see the moral and compassionate context in which all of my actions are handled when looking and am very impressed to see the kind of being *I already am* and how without self, it is simply part of a grander, mysterious, infinitely more benevolent whole.

I experience the trials and tribulations of daily life that have always been there, but there is no 'me' to affix suffering to, and it has given me insights into life that enable me to simply exist in peace. I'm not perfect or constantly peaceful or in a state of spiritual exuberance, but rather understand a more profound state of reality that, when contemplated, makes these states more accessible.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I accepted that bold ideas have a place in this life, and took some time to honestly think about what things might look like if the notion of self was actually a great illusion.

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.

These are AE of thought that reinforce the illusion of 'self' There may be some comfort in thinking that "I" have a level of determination in this world in any given situation, but the reality is that this illusion is far more destructive.

b) What makes things happen? How does it work?

Things just happen, they are what they are. We only have our senses and our thoughts to experience our present world as it is where it is. There is life to be experienced and there are senses and thoughts to do just that, and only just that, in the present time that we are given. And when we acknowledge that truth life becomes far more genuine an experience...

What makes all of that happen and how it all works is beyond my AE and thoughts to discern.

c) What are you responsible for?

That implies there is a self responsible for something, which there is not, though the notion of compassion still holds a lot of weight in my book.

d) Give examples from experience.

I ask myself what is in it for the guides who spend time on these boards helping others to discover the truth and all I can come up with is compassion. In light of all I have learned, it seems a wholly compatible ideal and one I will continue with. This discovery is too great for me to keep to myself my whole life.

6) Anything to add?

Is is OK to explore the rest of the site now? Also I want to say THANK YOU again for being such a wonderful and devoted guide! I hope we can stay in touch on here.

With love,
Jeremy

[forgetmenot]

Hey Jeremy,

d) Give examples from experience.

I ask myself what is in it for the guides who spend time on these boards helping others to discover the truth and all I can come up with is compassion. In light of all I have learned, it seems a wholly compatible ideal and one I will continue with. This discovery is too great for me to keep to myself my whole life.

Would you be able to give some examples from your recent experiences of how it has been seen that there is no one controlling, deciding, choosing etc please.

6) Anything to add?

Is is OK to explore the rest of the site now? Also I want to say THANK YOU again for being such a wonderful and devoted guide! I hope we can stay in touch on here.

Yes, by all means, go ahead and explore. And yes, we will be staying in touch. Once you have responded to the above question, I will get other guides to read your thread to make sure I have covered everything and that everything is clear. Once that has been done you will be sent an invitation to join LU’s Aftercare Facebook group and we can also connect there.

With love, Kay

[Beatrice]

Hi Kay,

Would you be able to give some examples from your recent experiences of how it has been seen that there is no one controlling, deciding, choosing etc please.

They happen all the time! When I'm tying my shoes, in a meeting, driving to work, etc. But I will describe one moment today in a more representative and vivid detail. I was walking from my office to my truck. I had unmasked my 'self' and was enjoying looking. Everything I'm about to describe were things I observed in AE. The actions were not the product of 'choice' or controlling, etc, but rather the things that just happened in that present moment. The skies were a bit cloudy, and my truck was a bit dirty. I walked to my truck and placed my phone and cup on the tailgate while I fumbled around for my keys. I then opened the door, grabbed my phone and keys, and drove off. There was an immense sense of awareness, but I didn't choose to feel dismay about the clouds or the dirt on my truck... there wasn't a choice to be made about the clouds... they are just clouds. There wasn't a choice to be made about the dirt on the truck, it's just dirt on the truck. And there wasn't a 'me' to suffer about any of it anyway. It's just life, and it just happens. Watching the phone and cup on the tailgate, that wasn't a choice, it just happens. There wasn't deciding to fumble for keys or to breathe or to hear the traffic or open the door or any of those many things that AE was bringing in that moment. It was just life happening. It's what I see when there is no me. And because there is no me, there is no one controlling, deciding, choosing, etc. And this kind of experience happens many, many times throughout the day.

With love,
Jeremy

[forgetmenot]

Hey Jeremy,

Lovely, thank you for that! I will now get some other guides to read your thread. There may or may not be further questions and it may be a couple or more days before I get back to you. As soon as I know something, so shall you :)

With love, Kay

[forgetmenot]

Hi Jeremy...well that did not take as long as I thought it would!

Congratulations, and welcome through the Gateless Gate. There are no further questions for you. It has been a pleasure to walk with you and point the way. Thank you for being so open and willing to LOOK!

Keep an eye out for an email notification from the forum about a PM (private message) inviting you to join our Aftercare group on Facebook. The PM also details other resources available to you. Your name will change from green to blue, which indicates that you have had the realisation of there being no separate self.

You can contact me at any time if you have any questions etc, via the forums PM system, or via Facebook if you decide to join our groups there. I am also sending you a PM via the forum.

Love, Kay