Are you tracking?

[BirdDog]

Heyy. I will need a day for my responces. i look forward to getting back to you tomorrow. thanks again so much

[Jadzia]

I will need a day for my responces.

I do hope you'll give yourself a break, too. ;-)

Love,
Jadzia

[BirdDog]

What is “hearing”?
What about the “seer”and “seeing”? What about the other senses?

Well the other senses work the exact same way. There is no Seer and seen. There is just sight. there cannot be two separate things. they require each other, therefor they are one action, and thats seeing.

What would be if there isn’t a big revelation? If everything would just fall into place in a very quiet way? No grand scheme, no big revelation? All simplicity, all known?

That is totally possible and could happen. and that would be in that case what is happening,

You cannot find an “I” in actual experience? Good. But you wrote you can have an AE of both ears and body.
So what exactly is it that has ears and a body?
What is the AE of ear? What is the AE of body?
Thoughts about ears and body are known, but are ears and body actually known?

Nothing has ears and body. There is no me that possessed these things. There is perception of them, but I cannot be those things because They are being perceived. And something cannot perceive itself. The AE of these things are when there is a sensation of a head ache, or I look at my feet. or touch my ears. In those situations I have AE of those things. And so i can experience the body. So to your question are the ears and body actually known? I do know they exist. Im touching my face right now. I would say they are not known because there is nothing to be known. Known would be thoughts about something right? I have lots of thoughts about sensations produced by the body, and the thoughts are AE but the content or so called knowledge that the thoughts contain is not.

So there is no "I" in AE.

No there is not

No BirdDog in actual experience? At all? Not hidden anywhere? Not somewhere stashed away in the body?

No not stashed away lol

What difference do you notice?

I noticed there was one less sensory I was experiencing in AE and that was hearing.

The game is happening the same way with and without commentator, right?

Yes If I turn the sound on or off on the computer it does not change anything that was happening in the soccer game. all that changes is how I perceived the video, There was just no sound in AE comming from my computer.

If that is true what would that mean for the BirdDog story?

It means that life would continue to happen and play out the same way if there is an apparent I or not.

[Jadzia]

Nice, nice, nice.

If that is true what would that mean for the BirdDog story?
It means that life would continue to happen and play out the same way if there is an apparent I or not

Yes, if you mean “I”=thought comments. If you mean without the belief in the separate self, well, life might or might not play out differently.
If thoughts are like the commentator, the endless “babbling” about what “BirdDog” is, what he does, what he likes, what he is good at - how much influence on the life do they have, or need to have?
Lets say, it makes “Bang” – total amnesia and there is no BirdDog story? All memory gone.

What would change? What would drop? What would still be there?
Take some time to answer these questions.

If you like you can try something, too.
Walk through the day with checking on thoughts with the content “I, me, mine” and swap them now and again against “name of your choice, he, him”.
What happens?
What difference is noticed using “I, me, mine” or “name of your choice, he, him”?
What does it feel like using another name? What is changed?

Careful, I am not talking about thoughts like “The traffic light is red, I need to stop”, ok? No need for observation there, but simple action. :-)

Direct experience only! I still mention it, habit.....

Love,
Jadzia

[BirdDog]

Lets say, it makes “Bang” – total amnesia and there is no BirdDog story? All memory gone.

What would change? What would drop? What would still be there?

Well nothing would change, my perception and the thoughts that come and go may change right? Experiences would be the same, there would just be no story of BD. Because the separate self is nothing but an illusion , when thats gone how could anything change? Everything is already happening and changing. The only thing that could change is my perception of things. and the perception of me. Or you could say there would be no more perception of me. Im not trying to say that the dropping of self is not a profound groundbreaking shift because it is. So what would still be there? Everything that is here now except the illusion of something thats really not even here now because its just an illusion to begin with.

If you like you can try something, too.
Walk through the day with checking on thoughts with the content “I, me, mine” and swap them now and again against “name of your choice, he, him”.
What happens?

What happened is There was much lest interest in this other person. I almost had to purposefully inject him into the day. otherwise I just went through my day with no thought or effort about this other person.

What difference is noticed using “I, me, mine” or “name of your choice, he, him”?
What does it feel like using another name? What is changed?

It felt weird and unnatural. Nothing big about my day changed, just the thoughts or commentary changed.

[Jadzia]

Here we go! :-)

So what would still be there? Everything that is here now except the illusion of something thats really not even here now because its just an illusion to begin with.

When you look at how you felt at the beginning of our investigation – you wrote that not finding a self is “strange” and “honestly scary”. How do you feel about it now? If, what did change?

Or you could say there would be no more perception of me.

Maybe a total amnesia isn’t needed, is it maybe just loosing the grip, the belief in a separate self?

Will there be no more thoughts playing around with I/me/mine?
No not really, thoughts will still do as they did before – make it look as if there is a BD.
Who or what would mind them?
Stories can be fun, right? We love watching good films telling us interesting stories……

Allow me to go back to another answer you gave earlier:

Is there a difference between a thought which includes “I/me/mine” and one without these words?
Again its like these are generally negative, and about things that are not happening right now in the moment or are not about A.E.

From your different perspective: Who or what could care if these thoughts are around and seem to be negative?
How is it known, or what is it that labels thoughts as positive and/or negative?
Who or what would care for a thought habit?

For today: Have a close look on how you make decisions. Watch your thoughts like a hawk.
Are decisions made or do thoughts pop up “telling” of someone who did it?
When do the thoughts “I decide to do …..” or “I decided to do this and that…..” appear?
Before, during or after a decision?
Is there a decision process leading to a decision or do they just pop up?

If you like, try this:
Go into your kitchen. Find three different foods, any three different kinds will do. Put them on the counter in a row. Look at them all for a minute. Then pick the one you'd most like to eat.
When you've picked one, stop and answer the questions above.

Love,
Jadzia

[BirdDog]

How do you feel about it now? If, what did change?

Well in this moment not sure. I didn't do anything to make a change I can tell you that hehe. I think more is just being reviled. Feeling good about it.

How is it known, or what is it that labels thoughts as positive and/or negative?
Who or what would care for a thought habit?

Ahhhh I see. Well then they are really the same thing now. Because There can be thoughts or perspective and it does not change anything.

Are decisions made or do thoughts pop up “telling” of someone who did it?

Decisions happen, They are made, but not in the way of making a decision. Only in the past tense of the word. In the same way sometimes thoughts pop up claiming to have made the decision.

When do the thoughts “I decide to do …..” or “I decided to do this and that…..” appear? Before, during or after a decision?

Thoughts can pop up in all phases of the "Decision making process" sometimes they are before, sometimes after, or sometimes seemingly at the same time.

Is there a decision process leading to a decision or do they just pop up?

There is a decision making process in my head that appears to be there. But no matter how hard I plan to make decisions and how hard I think about it lol. There is a very split decision for lack of a better term, made as it happens. Split decision as in I choose one or the other and then that happened.

Go into your kitchen. Find three different foods, any three different kinds will do. Put them on the counter in a row. Look at them all for a minute. Then pick the one you'd most like to eat.
When you've picked one, stop and answer the questions above.

If you like, try this:
Go into your kitchen. Find three different foods, any three different kinds will do. Put them on the counter in a row. Look at them all for a minute. Then pick the one you'd most like to eat.
When you've picked one, stop and answer the questions above.

Now this is very interesting. let me sleep on it and get back to you tomorrow lol

[Jadzia]

I hope your sleep is refreshing and helps with the sorting. I am a big fan of sleeping on something, too.

Well in this moment not sure. I didn't do anything to make a change I can tell you that hehe. I think more is just being reviled. Feeling good about it.

Feeling good sounds good. Still some kind of fear around or is there something growing called acceptance?
Do you mean “I think more is just being revealed”? Who, what does the revealing? Is there an “I” and a “revealer”?

Decisions happen, They are made, but not in the way of making a decision. Only in the past tense of the word. In the same way sometimes thoughts pop up claiming to have made the decision.

So, decisions are nothing more than thoughts which thoughts label as 'decisions', right?
Could a thought actually make decisions?

I like the term split decision, as in: it is suddenly there looking as if it appears from a somewhere - coming from nowhere.

There is a decision making process in my head that appears to be there. But no matter how hard I plan to make decisions and how hard I think about it lol. There is a very split decision for lack of a better term, made as it happens. Split decision as in I choose one or the other and then that happened.

If decision happen – is there a chooser? Is there an author of thoughts, labelling either “choosing thoughts” or 'deciding thoughts'?

What is in “your” head? The decision making process or thoughts which “claim having made it” or “here is/was a decision process”? Thoughts which seemingly “walk the whole way to get to a decision”?


Love,
Jadzia

[BirdDog]

Yes some sleep was refreshing

“I think more is just being revealed”? Who, what does the revealing? Is there an “I” and a “revealer”?

Yes revealing is happening is a better way of putting it or lets go ahead and say life-ing

So, decisions are nothing more than thoughts which thoughts label as 'decisions', right?
Could a thought actually make decisions?

Thoughts dont make decisions. nothing makes decisions. There is just whats happening.

If decision happen – is there a chooser? Is there an author of thoughts, labelling either “choosing thoughts” or 'deciding thoughts'?

No so back to the three foods and picking one to eat. there is no chooser. So thoughts appear and then my arm starts moving and picks up a food. The thoughts are just commentating . And the commentator is off the wall he thinks his commentary is making the soccer players on the field change their style of play to suit him.

What is in “your” head? The decision making process or thoughts which “claim having made it” or “here is/was a decision process”? Thoughts which seemingly “walk the whole way to get to a decision”?

Yes all of those thoughts may appear at different times. but the thoughts typically dont have much to do with what is happening now. The thoughts dont have much power here. Im not sure if we could even call it a choice that we have to listen to those thoughts and buy into them or not as it pertains to decisions. because there is no alternative scenario where we get to find out how life plays out if we were to make the "other" decisions that we previously passed up on. It didn't happen. So there is no telling. There can only be what is happening . and if we seemingly were to change our decision well then that would be just what is happening. What do you think?

[Jadzia]

Yes revealing is happening is a better way of putting it or lets go ahead and say life-ing

Revealing implies that everything is already decided, doesn’t it? By whatever someone, or?
So there would be two different ones separate from each other, or? One revealing, one to whom it is revealed. Is this what is happening?
We try to prove here that there is no separate self. No separation, at all.

Im not sure if we could even call it a choice that we have to listen to those thoughts and buy into them or not as it pertains to decisions. because there is no alternative scenario where we get to find out how life plays out if we were to make the "other" decisions that we previously passed up on.

What tells of a probable “alternate scenario”? Or that there was “decisions that we previously passed up on?”
Aren’t this just thoughts “creating a story” about decisions?

There can only be what is happening . and if we seemingly were to change our decision well then that would be just what is happening. What do you think?

If in such a situation „we seemingly were to change our decision“ or “I just changed my decision” are what?
Yes, thoughts again.
What you enjoyed was watching a thought play called “if”. Very entertaining. :-)

Thinking and decision making is mostly thought to be happening in the head. Do you want to have a look at "head" at the solidity of the head?

Press a finger down onto the top of the ‘head’.
Notice what is actually present.
Is it a head, or is it just a sensation labelled ‘pressure’ and a story ABOUT a head?

Do the same with a finger on each side of the head.
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?
And is there anything between the pressure points, or is it just a thought that says there *must* be something between them?

At this point of our investigation it would be a good idea for you to go over the whole thread again.
With these questions in mind:
Do you still have questions to some of the things we explored so far?
Is there something you are not clear about?
Where are you at this point of our exploration?
What did change?

Take all the time you need.

Love,
Jadzia

[BirdDog]

Awesome i will get back to you toorrow

[Jadzia]

Hi BirdDog

How are you doing?

Love,
Jadzia

[BirdDog]

Doing well. took some time looking through the thread. Things have been going well.

Revealing implies that everything is already decided, doesn’t it? By whatever someone, or?

Yes I see what you mean. Agreeing

What tells of a probable “alternate scenario”? Or that there was “decisions that we previously passed up on?”
Aren’t this just thoughts “creating a story” about decisions?

Nothing tells. Thats the point right? there are just thoughts about decisions.

heheh IF!!! I was IF-ing there. I see how we cannot even really entertain a conversation about these ifs because they are not happening, therefore who knows?!

So I do see what you are talking about. There is just the sensations, and then thoughts about them that point to a head being there and labeling of the sensations to = my head.

Do you still have questions to some of the things we explored so far?

I don't really have questions at this point in time that can be answered lolll I still have questions about how time. Such as how this random appearance of everything seems to move forward and continues to happen with no lapses, just continuous happening. Not even really sure what my question would be, just thinking about it is wild.

Is there something you are not clear about?

I'm pretty clear about whats not, Things that im not, beliefs, Thoughts about whats not happening and ect. Still really unsure about what is. I know Its just this and just what is happening in this present moment. But still this seems to be one big mystery. Im alright with this.

Where are you at this point of our exploration?

At this point i'm able to see The illusion at most times. Im becoming much more at peace with it all. At the beginning of the exploration I was spending alot of time thinking about the illusion of separation. And there was some me trying to do this and figure this out. And now its not that. Now im not so consumed by thoughts about everything. Thoughts still happen, but thats all they do.

What changed

Nothing and everything changed. I have a clearer understanding of this through having experiences of absolutely no self. Nothing existed except this. And I go through cycles where there was just pure presence, and then other times where things were more leveled out. recently things have been more leveled out. So what changed? lol allot, but nothing because this happening was always just happening. because It was funny looking back through the thread in fact. I cant put my finer on anything exempt see-ing happened. What is there to change lol ?

[Jadzia]

Your answers gave me a BIG fat smile. Good work!

I'm pretty clear about whats not, Things that im not, beliefs, Thoughts about whats not happening and ect.

Good. That exactly is what we point to. How do you free yourself from an illusion? From something which isn’t there at all and never has been? You don’t find it anywhere.

At this point i'm able to see The illusion at most times.

Most of the times?
Is there ever a different time? A time with self/illusion?
How comes? There is no separate self. Or are there thoughts “chatting happily” about one?
Same with ‘cycles of pure presence’. Does a cycle start and end?
Or are there thoughts “here it starts and here it ends”?
Is there ever anything else but pure presence? This?

Still really unsure about what is. I know Its just this and just what is happening in this present moment. But still this seems to be one big mystery. Im alright with this.

Sounds strange perhaps, but being unsure is good.
Simply allowing the ‘being not sure’ to be there is refreshing, isn’t it? No need to know everything. Having questions and enjoying them.
Yes, it is a big mystery. We only have concepts we can use to describe it, and what are concepts? Ideas/thoughts. Any divisions of the indivisible are meaningless. So concepts are meaningless.

What is there to change lol ?

Yes, and who or what would be there to experience change?
Life always was without this self.

So you are interested in time……

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time or an event that is moving forward on this linear time, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience that the ’now’ is moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Any actual experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

Love,
Jadzia

[BirdDog]

[[/quote]

Most of the times?

Yes, Just thoughts ya know. But as I go through my day, sometimes I will be either having thoughts about a me, or thinking im experiencing a me and I then latter take that as I am experiencing self. even though I know thats not true, and cannot be true. and even the thoughts that I am experiencing no self right now cant really be happening either, because even that is just more thoughts about a belief and a concept and surrounding around an idea of self. So maybe its just some habbits or adjusting to the thoughts as if even that is a thing.

How comes? There is no separate self. Or are there thoughts “chatting happily” about one?

Yes just alot of thoughts thought-ing each other into existence. and then there will be ten thoughts stacked up onto and interwoven into each other chatting it up.

Same with ‘cycles of pure presence’. Does a cycle start and end?

So ill have thoughts and then still sometime believe them for a second lol. and entertain the train of thought long enough to think im on the train.

Is there ever anything else but pure presence? This?

No there cannot be anything outside presence.

hehehehe yes i am interested in time.

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

So its really not something I can grasp. Its almost like its either moving so fast that i cannot grasp the present moment, or its not moving at all and each moment is really a different moment. But at the end of the day its like those two ways are really the same.

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

No i cannot grasp attention or focus to a beginning of a moment, because every time a thought appears about it, the moment has passed to a new one.

How long does the ‘now’ last?

It doesn't last A moment is not timed. not even comparable.

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

There never was a start or an end.its always just now.

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

When there is a thought or an idea about something that isn't happening.

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

Thoughts.

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

No there is only actual experience of now, even thoughts about the past are happening in AE now. Im not so interested in Past and future. thats easily seen as thoughts. but the now is interesting. Its ungraspable and indescribable.