Thread for Funky Buddha & Forgetmenot

[forgetmenot]

Hello Mark,

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?

There was a feeling that arose when looking to see which glass was the most preferable, which I assumed was the chooser, but now looking how could it be ? It's just a sensation arising, with no inherent choosing capabilities. It looks like everything that happens is a seamless flow, carried out by no one, only witnessed as experience.

Was there an actual sensation or was there just and idea that a ‘feeling’ of choosing arose?

And what exactly is doing the witnessing? Can this witness be something separate from all the rest? Noticing happens - how do you know that a witness is what notices? Does this witness have a shape, a location, a weight? Can you point to this witness?

Let’s have a look at the body. Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc.) before replying.

Love, Kay

[Funkybuddha]

Hello Kay,

Was there an actual sensation or was there just and idea that a ‘feeling’ of choosing arose?

It was a feeling that 'A' was better than 'B', a commentary of thought, "A is clearer, looks fresher etc" then 'A' was chose .

And what exactly is doing the witnessing? Can this witness be something separate from all the rest? Noticing happens - how do you know that a witness is what notices? Does this witness have a shape, a location, a weight? Can you point to this witness?

The witnessing and the witnessed is one, I am not separate from what is being witnessed (Using the word 'I' to communicate here). Example, as I sit an listen to the birds singing, the hearing of the sound is arising within me, which is only intermittent sound that 'thought' labels 'Birds singing', If I was separate from the sound then that would mean a hearer & a sound and everywhere I look for the hearer I can't be found. There is no witness anywhere noticing anything, there is only 'noticing' as a process of experiencing, no shape, location or weight of a witness as it's only a 'thought' that says there is a witness when in actual fact there is only witnessing.

Let’s have a look at the body. Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?

No it can't, the body is not experienced through sensation, how could a sensation be a body ?

Does the body have a weight or volume?

Again No, how can a sensation have a weight or volume ?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

When paying attention to only sensations and not thoughts or images as instructed there is no body or any clothing in sensation.

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

There is not a body or a chair experienced in sensation as these are stories created by thought.

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?

In the experiencing of sensation there is no inside or outside, only a sensation. How can a sensation be inside or outside ? It's just a sensation. There is no inside or outside.

If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

There is no outside, only the knowing of sensation.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

It is a thought/story pointing to the AE of colour.

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

The AE of the body is 'colour'

Hope this helps
Love M

[forgetmenot]

Hello Mark,

Was there an actual sensation or was there just and idea that a ‘feeling’ of choosing arose?
It was a feeling that 'A' was better than 'B', a commentary of thought, "A is clearer, looks fresher etc" then 'A' was chose .

You didn’t answer the question. Was this ‘feeling’ an actual sensation that was felt in the body?

And what exactly is doing the witnessing? Can this witness be something separate from all the rest? Noticing happens - how do you know that a witness is what notices? Does this witness have a shape, a location, a weight? Can you point to this witness?

The witnessing and the witnessed is one, I am not separate from what is being witnessed (Using the word 'I' to communicate here). Example, as I sit an listen to the birds singing, the hearing of the sound is arising within me, which is only intermittent sound that 'thought' labels 'Birds singing', If I was separate from the sound then that would mean a hearer & a sound and everywhere I look for the hearer I can't be found. There is no witness anywhere noticing anything, there is only 'noticing' as a process of experiencing, no shape, location or weight of a witness as it's only a 'thought' that says there is a witness when in actual fact there is only witnessing.

Lovely, thank you for explaining.

Can it be known how tall the body is?

No it can't, the body is not experienced through sensation, how could a sensation be a body?

If you drop all thoughts and images about a body, what is left is sensation. Just via sensation alone, can it be known how tall the body is?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

When paying attention to only sensations and not thoughts or images as instructed there is no body or any clothing in sensation.

Yes, so all that is there is sensation and thought adds the story of the sensation being a body that has clothes on and this is what causes the sensation.

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

There is not a body or a chair experienced in sensation as these are stories created by thought.

Yes, thought points to colour and labels colour as body or chair. Colour is AE of colour, so the AE of body and chair is thought. Is this clear?

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?

In the experiencing of sensation there is no inside or outside, only a sensation. How can a sensation be inside or outside ? It's just a sensation. There is no inside or outside.

Nice :)

Is there an experiencer of sensation? Where does feeling end and the sensation begin? In other words where does the experiencer end and the experience begin?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

It is a thought/story pointing to the AE of colour.

The WORD/LABEL refers to AE of thought.

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

The AE of the body is 'colour'

The AE of the body is thought. There is no colour that is the body. It is only thought that points to colour and labels it a body, so the AE of the body is thought. Can you see this?

Thought labels ‘colours’, ‘sensations’ (cold/hot/pressure etc) etc as a body - but no actual body is present. Thought does this with everything that seems to exist and to create the 'person in the world' illusion.



Notice what is actually present in this image. Thought says it's a cartoon character called Bart Simpson, but all that's actually there is yellow, red, blue, white, black. There is no Bart present in the image at all. The AE of Bart is thought.

Can you see that Bart is 100% just a story? The body is a story in the same way.

Also notice that the thing which thought claims is your body doesn't even have a head. Can you find a head?

Love, Kay

[Funkybuddha]

Hi Kay,

You didn’t answer the question. Was this ‘feeling’ an actual sensation that was felt in the body?

Sorry, I thought I'd answered it. It was a feeling in the chest, like a lightness

If you drop all thoughts and images about a body, what is left is sensation. Just via sensation alone, can it be known how tall the body is?

No It can't be known how tall the body is via sensation alone. There is no way of determining where the sensation begins or ends, it's just a sensation.

Yes, thought points to colour and labels colour as body or chair. Colour is AE of colour, so the AE of body and chair is thought. Is this clear?

Yes, thought labels Actual Experience of colour, body, chair, table, clock etc when all is in AE is colour.

Is there an experiencer of sensation? Where does feeling end and the sensation begin? In other words where does the experiencer end and the experience begin?

No, there is only sensation, no one or no thing experiencing it, just sensation. It doesn't end or begin anywhere. However when I close my eyes an focus on the 'sensation' that is there, like where thought says this is the feet, legs etc a 'feeling' can arise with a thought too, like when I done the exercise with the preference for glass 'A' or glass 'B'. A feeling arose in the chest that 'A' was more attractive than 'B', a lightness. But this is more thought pointing to the feeling in the chest and saying this is what chose 'A'. There is no end or beginning to the experiencer or the experience as they are not separate, the experiencer is the experience.

The AE of the body is thought. There is no colour that is the body. It is only thought that points to colour and labels it a body, so the AE of the body is thought. Can you see this?

Yes I see, there is no body, only thoughts about a body, when in actual fact there is only colour.

Can you see that Bart is 100% just a story? The body is a story in the same way.

Yes, Bart is in AE only colour. Thought then says, red, yellow, blue and this is Bart, when there is only colour.

Also notice that the thing which thought claims is your body doesn't even have a head. Can you find a head?

No, I can't see my own apparent head unless I look in the mirror, but this appearance in the mirror is the AE of colour which thought labels a head.

Hope this helps
Love Mark

[forgetmenot]

Hey Mark,

You’re doing great!

You didn’t answer the question. Was this ‘feeling’ an actual sensation that was felt in the body?

Sorry, I thought I'd answered it. It was a feeling in the chest, like a lightness

Thank you, I just wanted to make sure you had seen that the sensation was not the chooser, and you clarified that with an answer later on in your post!

If you drop all thoughts and images about a body, what is left is sensation. Just via sensation alone, can it be known how tall the body is?

No It can't be known how tall the body is via sensation alone. There is no way of determining where the sensation begins or ends, it's just a sensation.

Yes! “There is no way of determining where the sensation begins or ends, it’s just sensation”. Fantabulous! :)

Is there an experiencer of sensation? Where does feeling end and the sensation begin? In other words where does the experiencer end and the experience begin?

No, there is only sensation, no one or no thing experiencing it, just sensation. It doesn't end or begin anywhere. However when I close my eyes an focus on the 'sensation' that is there, like where thought says this is the feet, legs etc a 'feeling' can arise with a thought too, like when I done the exercise with the preference for glass 'A' or glass 'B'. A feeling arose in the chest that 'A' was more attractive than 'B', a lightness. But this is more thought pointing to the feeling in the chest and saying this is what chose 'A'. There is no end or beginning to the experiencer or the experience as they are not separate, the experiencer is the experience.

So are you using the word ‘feeling’ in place of the word ‘sensation’? If thought says “I feels as if the days are getting shorter”. Is this thought pointing to an actual sensation or is it pointing to an idea of days getting shorter? This is why I don’t use the word ‘feeling’. If there is an actual sensation in the ‘body’, then it is a sensation and not an idea/feeling.

a 'feeling' can arise with a thought too, like when I done the exercise with the preference for glass 'A' or glass 'B'. A feeling arose in the chest that 'A' was more attractive than 'B', a lightness. But this is more thought pointing to the feeling in the chest and saying this is what chose 'A'

Lovely discernment.

The AE of the body is thought. There is no colour that is the body. It is only thought that points to colour and labels it a body, so the AE of the body is thought. Can you see this?
Yes I see, there is no body, only thoughts about a body, when in actual fact there is only colour.

Great :)

Can you see that Bart is 100% just a story? The body is a story in the same way.

Yes, Bart is in AE only colour. Thought then says, red, yellow, blue and this is Bart, when there is only colour.

Yes, you got it!

There is double ups in the next exercise, as some you have already done, however it doesn’t hurt to do them again.

This is a deeper investigation of the body. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. Repeat the exercise several times.

Stand in front of a bigger mirror.

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?


(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’?
Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colours and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?
Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

Love, Kay

[Funkybuddha]

Hi Kay,

Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

There was no connection, what was experienced was sensation and colour/a body, the colour/body in the mirror appeared flat, 2 dimensional, lifeless, it wasn't mine.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

No, there was no connection. The sensation was experienced, but the colour/hand was just moving with no sensation or connection to it.

Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’?
Or only thoughts suggest it?

Again No, I clapped my hands for this, there was sensation there and when observing the hands there was no sensation in the hand, just thought saying the hand is tingling, but it was just colour moving.

Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?

No it doesn't, it appeared flat, lifeless, just colour. Then thoughts, feet, legs, chest, arms etc but all just thoughts

Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?

No the image never. It was seen as flat and colour only, thoughts then say it's a body, but these are just thoughts, all that was experienced was colour.

Or are there only colours and shapes?

There was colour yes, thought said there were shapes, shapes of arms, legs etc

Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

No there isn't any 'knowledge' of legs. There is just colour in the mirror. Thought says there are legs & feet with this body too, but this is thought labelling the colour and filling the gap of lower legs and feet in, when there is nothing but sensation.

Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

No body anywhere, just sensation.

Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?

There is only sensation an thoughts, legs, feet moving etc

Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?

No, there is sensation and a story/thoughts about walking.

Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?

There are only thoughts and sensation.

Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?

There is no body no, only the knowing of thoughts suggesting there is

Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

No, only sensation and a story (A very convincing one) that there is a body walking.

Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

The sensations are here & now, they have no location in space, as I walk thought says feet, legs moving across a carpet in a living room, but all that is experienced of this living room & carpet is colour.

Hope this helps
Love Mark

[forgetmenot]

Hey Mark,

After doing both of the body exercises how do you feel?

Love, Kay

[Funkybuddha]

Hi Kay,

After doing both of the body exercises how do you feel?

It became apparent while doing the exercise that the sensations I experienced were not being reflected in the image called a body. I could have been staring at another body in the mirror and thought could have fooled me into assuming it was mine, there was no correlation between my experiencing sensation in this moment and the appearances of colour labelled a body by thought

So how does it feel to see this ?
It feels like what I am is not what 'Thought' says I am. When I focus on sensation (especially with my eyes closed) there is a sense of spaciousness with a knowing of sensation there, then I switch to sound then to what thoughts are arising and there is an understanding that what I am is always of aware of this. The body in the mirror (when eyes were opened) was the experiencing of colour/seeing, the body that thought labelled was just an image, if there was an image of another body there an thought said this is my body, the hand is moving now etc, there would be know way of knowing that it wasn't 'My' body, unless looking at the process clearly to see that it is only thought that says so, thought can say anything about what is being experienced an make it personal. It seems there is no ownership of the colour/body as it's just an appearance in the now, like everything else. So it feels like a lighter me, like a sense of the seriousness of life, to protect this body/ego fell away a little, also if it's the case for this body then it is for all bodies, I noticed yesterday I was looking at people differently, like it was all a theatre with no one in 'Them' other bodies, ha that they were all part of what 'I' was experiencing in this moment. There is something in me that wants to take this looking deeper. But I feel like another part of the puzzle become apparent with this.

Hope this helps
Love Mark

[forgetmenot]

Hey Mark,

Thank you for sharing, this was lovely to read.

After doing both of the body exercises how do you feel?

It became apparent while doing the exercise that the sensations I experienced were not being reflected in the image called a body. I could have been staring at another body in the mirror and thought could have fooled me into assuming it was mine, there was no correlation between my experiencing sensation in this moment and the appearances of colour labelled a body by thought

So, is a body required for experience to be known?

So how does it feel to see this ?

It feels like what I am is not what 'Thought' says I am. When I focus on sensation (especially with my eyes closed) there is a sense of spaciousness with a knowing of sensation there, then I switch to sound then to what thoughts are arising and there is an understanding that what I am is always of aware of this.

Sit and look at the ‘body’. What is there but colour (we are only looking at colour for this exercise)? Where is the dividing line between the colour labelled ‘body’ and the colour labelled ‘chair’? Where is the dividing line between the colour labelled ‘chair’ and the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’? Where is the dividing line between the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’ and the colour labelled ‘wall’? What did you find?

The body in the mirror (when eyes were opened) was the experiencing of colour/seeing, the body that thought labelled was just an image, if there was an image of another body there an thought said this is my body, the hand is moving now etc, there would be know way of knowing that it wasn't 'My' body, unless looking at the process clearly to see that it is only thought that says so, thought can say anything about what is being experienced an make it personal.

Okay, so let’s investigate the idea of the eyes seeing.

It is believed that both 'visual sight' and 'mental images' are coming from the eyes, because when it's investigated the attention automatically goes to the sensation 'of the eyes', and at the same time the mental image 'of the eyes' appear with it.

So another SENSE of self is linked to the sensation 'of the eyes'.

What are the eyes in the actual experience?
A sensation + a mental image, right?

Can sight come from a sensation?
Can sight come from an image (of the eyes)?

Can a 'mental image' come from a sensation?
Can a 'mental image' come from another mental image (of the eyes)?


Here is another exercise.
With eyes closed, there is the experience of 'blackness'. There may a bright light, a red glow, sparkly bits or cloudy flecks appearing and disappearing - It really doesn't matter about the specifics. We are just noticing ‘blackness’.

1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness'?
2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?
3) Can what is seeing the blackness be found?
4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is ‘seeing’ the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?
What do you find?

Okay….then open the eyes and look around.

Is there a difference between the ‘blackness’ when eyes are closed and ‘colour’ when eyes are open or are they both simply the appearance of colour? Are there eyes really opening and closing?

It seems there is no ownership of the colour/body as it's just an appearance in the now, like everything else. So it feels like a lighter me, like a sense of the seriousness of life, to protect this body/ego fell away a little, also if it's the case for this body then it is for all bodies, I noticed yesterday I was looking at people differently, like it was all a theatre with no one in 'Them' other bodies, ha that they were all part of what 'I' was experiencing in this moment. There is something in me that wants to take this looking deeper. But I feel like another part of the puzzle become apparent with this.

That’s great to hear, Mark! Keep up the great work of LOOKING!

When, say, you are focussed at the job at hand at work and the only thoughts appearing are that of what is being done….is the body known in that moment? Is there an awareness of a body?



Thought says that the yellow, orange and green areas are you, and thought also calls these colours your body. Thought also says that the other colours are objects, and the light brown areas are animals that have their own consciousness. Thought also says that there is something behind the door.
How is it known that there is something behind the door?

Love, Kay

[Funkybuddha]

Hi Kay,

So, is a body required for experience to be known?

No, not at all. A body is a thought, a label, what is real is the appearance of colour. Whether there is seeing of the colour/body or not there is always experiencing in this moment. For example as I type these words out, there is colour that thought says are hands typing (movement) when in actual fact there is just the AE of sensation. The story of the Body is just another appearance (thought) in this moment.

Sit and look at the ‘body’. What is there but colour (we are only looking at colour for this exercise)? Where is the dividing line between the colour labelled ‘body’ and the colour labelled ‘chair’? Where is the dividing line between the colour labelled ‘chair’ and the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’? Where is the dividing line between the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’ and the colour labelled ‘wall’? What did you find?

The dividing line between the colour 'body' & the colour 'chair' is a thought, where the colour pink (body) ends and the colour brown (chair) begins is the dividing line of thought, like the exercise we done at the start of the thread about the map with it's states & territories, they only exist as concepts. The same goes for the dividing line between the 'chair' and the 'floor/rug' & the 'floor/rug' & the 'wall'. All these are the arising thoughts/a story separating experience, when in AE there is only colour/seeing.

Can sight come from a sensation?

No, a sensation cannot give rise to sight/seeing, a sensation is just a sensation, how can a sensation see ?

Can sight come from an image (of the eyes)?

No, images can't see, they are arising thoughts, an thoughts can't see.

Can a 'mental image' come from a sensation?

Again No, thoughts arise independent of sensation.

Can a 'mental image' come from another mental image (of the eyes)?

No, a mental image can point to another mental image, but not come from a mental image.


1) With eyes closed, can you confirm that what is experienced is 'blackness'?
2) Is there anything else in 'seeing' other than 'blackness'?
3) Can what is seeing the blackness be found?
4) Can a pair of eyes, an 'I' / 'me', a person be found that is ‘seeing’ the blackness? Or is there just 'blackness' to be found?

What do you find?

(1) Yes, all that was experienced was blackness
(2) No, nothing else could be found/seen
(3) No, I can't find a 'seer'
(4) No observer of blackness can be found, only the experiencing of blackness

Okay….then open the eyes and look around.

Is there a difference between the ‘blackness’ when eyes are closed and ‘colour’ when eyes are open or are they both simply the appearance of colour? Are there eyes really opening and closing?

The blackness when eyes are closed (colour) and the yellow, brown, pink etc (colour) when eyes are open are all the appearance of colour whether eyes are open or closed. Yes there are eyes that open and close, it changes from black (closed) to blue, red (open) !! Or is that just thought that says that ? When in actual fact no eyes are needed as all is thought pointing to colour whether open or closed.

When, say, you are focussed at the job at hand at work and the only thoughts appearing are that of what is being done….is the body known in that moment? Is there an awareness of a body?

No, in the moment it is forgotten there is a body and awareness of a body is just a thought, when I am focussed on the job an there are no thoughts of a body then it doesn't exist, the body only appears when thought creates it.

Thought says that the yellow, orange and green areas are you, and thought also calls these colours your body. Thought also says that the other colours are objects, and the light brown areas are animals that have their own consciousness. Thought also says that there is something behind the door.

How is it known that there is something behind the door?

There is nothing behind the door as the only reality is what I'm "experiencing' an that is what is appearing, the colour (brown/dog) the colour (green/boots) all appearing as thoughts of a me and a dog etc but in AE are all the seeing/colour arising in that moment.

Hope this helps & thank-you again for taking the time to do this guiding for me
Love Mark

[forgetmenot]

Hey Mark,

It seems the exploration is starting to flow easier for you. Lovely post to read.

So, is a body required for experience to be known?

No, not at all. A body is a thought, a label, what is real is the appearance of colour. Whether there is seeing of the colour/body or not there is always experiencing in this moment. For example as I type these words out, there is colour that thought says are hands typing (movement) when in actual fact there is just the AE of sensation. The story of the Body is just another appearance (thought) in this moment.

Lovely! The body doesn’t experience, the experience labelled body appears and you are aware of the appearance of it.

Sit and look at the ‘body’. What is there but colour (we are only looking at colour for this exercise)? Where is the dividing line between the colour labelled ‘body’ and the colour labelled ‘chair’? Where is the dividing line between the colour labelled ‘chair’ and the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’? Where is the dividing line between the colour labelled ‘floor/rug’ and the colour labelled ‘wall’? What did you find?

The dividing line between the colour 'body' & the colour 'chair' is a thought, where the colour pink (body) ends and the colour brown (chair) begins is the dividing line of thought, like the exercise we done at the start of the thread about the map with it's states & territories, they only exist as concepts. The same goes for the dividing line between the 'chair' and the 'floor/rug' & the 'floor/rug' & the 'wall'. All these are the arising thoughts/a story separating experience, when in AE there is only colour/seeing.

Terrific, so you see there are not many colourS, there is only colour.
So now have a look and see if there is colour AND sound AND thought AND smell AND taste AND sensation, or is there only one seamless whole ie coloursoundthoughtsmelltastesensation?

What do you find?

(1) Yes, all that was experienced was blackness
(2) No, nothing else could be found/seen
(3) No, I can't find a 'seer'
(4) No observer of blackness can be found, only the experiencing of blackness

Great!

Okay….then open the eyes and look around.
Is there a difference between the ‘blackness’ when eyes are closed and ‘colour’ when eyes are open or are they both simply the appearance of colour? Are there eyes really opening and closing?

The blackness when eyes are closed (colour) and the yellow, brown, pink etc (colour) when eyes are open are all the appearance of colour whether eyes are open or closed. Yes there are eyes that open and close, it changes from black (closed) to blue, red (open) !! Or is that just thought that says that ? When in actual fact no eyes are needed as all is thought pointing to colour whether open or closed.

What is the AE of eyes? Are there actual eyes opening and closing?

That's got to be Albert Einstein, right?



Notice that all that's actually present in the picture are some colours. That's all that's there, colour. Thought then labels these colours as hair, tongue, moustache, nose, eyes, eyebrows, mouth, ears, face and head and a story about this head being that of Albert Einsten.

The image of Einstein is just a story. There is no Einstein of any kind present. Just a story.
Now notice that thought is doing this with everything. In fact, without thought, there wouldn't even seem to be any things.

How is it known that there is something behind the door?

There is nothing behind the door as the only reality is what I'm "experiencing' an that is what is appearing, the colour (brown/dog) the colour (green/boots) all appearing as thoughts of a me and a dog etc but in AE are all the seeing/colour arising in that moment.

Yes, there is only what is being 'experienced' now, in this moment, it is only thought that says there is something behind the door. And how is it known that the colour labelled ‘blue’ is a door! :)


Love, Kay

[Funkybuddha]

Hi Kay,

Yes, it is coming together now, for short periods I may add :)

So now have a look and see if there is colour AND sound AND thought AND smell AND taste AND sensation, or is there only one seamless whole ie coloursoundthoughtsmelltastesensation?

When I close my eyes (thought) to shut out the visual distractions and become aware of the sensations & the sounds they appear to arise not separately but as one experience. I focus on the one first (sound) then the next (sensation) and sit with them. They are experienced as one, I cannot find a border where sound & sensation begin and end. It is like they are entwined within each other. When I open my eyes (thought) there is seeing/colour, sensation & sound all as one experience. I was going to say I need more time to experience this but isn't that just another thought that I am aware of in this moment ? Arising within the experience of Sound, Sensation, & Colour ? I get glimpses of the seamless flow all at once, then it's like I have to go through them again one by one, sound, sensation, colour, thought to get another experience of it all at once.

What is the AE of eyes? Are there actual eyes opening and closing?

The Actual Experience of Eyes is (thought), when I open & close my eyes there is (colour) cream, brown, blue etc (eyes open) then blackness (eyes closed), the eyes opening & closing is a thought, as the eyes are part of the body and the body is only the AE of thought. Whether the eyes are open or closed there is only (colour), so the eyes opening & closing is a story, it's not real, they never open and close, only in thought. What is starting to be seen here is that whether the eyes are open or closed there is sensation (legs, arms, back etc), sound (clock ticking, birds singing etc), colour (Cream, brown, pink, blackness etc) but all these in brackets are labels, concepts, thoughts pointing to raw experience. It's incredible how thought can create a whole reality, universe in fact, based on a story.

Yes, there is only what is being 'experienced' now, in this moment, it is only thought that says there is something behind the door. And how is it known that the colour labelled ‘blue’ is a door! :)

It is not known the colour labelled blue is a door !! Blue & Door are labels attributed to AE of colour by thought, there is no (blue) or a (door), they are as real as the flying spaghetti monster :) This is all thoughts, dividing & dissecting AE to create a reality, for what purpose only God knows. So if it applies to the 'Blue Door' then it also applies to everything else. The landscape (colour) the people (colour & sound) the birds singing (sound), the whole world is comprised of thoughts, everything as far as the illusory eye can see is thought overlaying AE, when all there is is Sensation, Sound, Colour, Smell, Taste & thought. I want to be able to experience this 24/7 and not just now when I'm doing these exercises and a few moments throughout the day when it becomes clearer.

Hope this helps
Love M

[forgetmenot]

Hey Mark,

So now have a look and see if there is colour AND sound AND thought AND smell AND taste AND sensation, or is there only one seamless whole ie coloursoundthoughtsmelltastesensation?

When I close my eyes (thought) to shut out the visual distractions and become aware of the sensations & the sounds they appear to arise not separately but as one experience. I focus on the one first (sound) then the next (sensation) and sit with them. They are experienced as one, I cannot find a border where sound & sensation begin and end. It is like they are entwined within each other. When I open my eyes (thought) there is seeing/colour, sensation & sound all as one experience.

Individual experience of sound AND sensation AND thought AND smell etc do not point to seamlessness or wholeness...that points to separation. It points to many separate and different experiences. There are no divisions of any kind.

So, what happens if you do all that again and IGNORE ALL thoughts, images and labels even the labels sensation, sound, taste, smell, thought, colour? Tell me what you see/notice.

I was going to say I need more time to experience this but isn't that just another thought that I am aware of in this moment ? Arising within the experience of Sound, Sensation, & Colour ? I get glimpses of the seamless flow all at once, then it's like I have to go through them again one by one, sound, sensation, colour, thought to get another experience of it all at once.

Why is thought any different to sound, sensation and colour? Actual Experience is also a concept, but it’s useful in that it’s pointing to what is happening now, and not what is imagined.

If the colours labelled ‘beautiful sunset’ appear in the current moment, then it is actual experience. However, let’s say you are at work and the label and image appears about a ‘beautiful sunset’ and the actual colours are not the experience in that moment, then the label/thought is pointing to fiction ie thought story about AE.
Is this clear?

What is the AE of eyes? Are there actual eyes opening and closing?

The Actual Experience of Eyes is (thought), when I open & close my eyes there is (colour) cream, brown, blue etc (eyes open) then blackness (eyes closed), the eyes opening & closing is a thought, as the eyes are part of the body and the body is only the AE of thought. Whether the eyes are open or closed there is only (colour), so the eyes opening & closing is a story, it's not real, they never open and close, only in thought. What is starting to be seen here is that whether the eyes are open or closed there is sensation (legs, arms, back etc), sound (clock ticking, birds singing etc), colour (Cream, brown, pink, blackness etc) but all these in brackets are labels, concepts, thoughts pointing to raw experience. It's incredible how thought can create a whole reality, universe in fact, based on a story.

Yes, the miracle of thought and all its stories that makes THIS this!

It is not known the colour labelled blue is a door !! Blue & Door are labels attributed to AE of colour by thought, there is no (blue) or a (door), they are as real as the flying spaghetti monster :)

Gotta love those spaghetti monsters! :D

This is all thoughts, dividing & dissecting AE to create a reality, for what purpose only God knows.

When you stop and think about it (!!!! :) ), it is all very miraculous to how the illusion comes together.

So if it applies to the 'Blue Door' then it also applies to everything else. The landscape (colour) the people (colour & sound) the birds singing (sound), the whole world is comprised of thoughts, everything as far as the illusory eye can see is thought overlaying AE, when all there is is Sensation, Sound, Colour, Smell, Taste & thought. I want to be able to experience this 24/7 and not just now when I'm doing these exercises and a few moments throughout the day when it becomes clearer.

Hmmm…so here is a desire/expectation that something needs to change and be seen in a special way. That something needs to happen for one to realise there is no separate self and the proof would be that only AE is seen clearly 24/7. Good luck with driving a car then, or going to work, or cooking a meal or simply walking!

What exactly is it that needs to become clearer? And what exactly is it that needs it to be clearer?
Are you not aware of colour, sound, smell, taste, thought and sensation when they appear? How can there be an experience of sound if no sound is appearing, how is it possible to be aware of all of experience if only thought is appearing in that moment?

Do you have any choice, whatsoever, about what you're aware of?
If you think that you do, think about this:

If thoughts say, "I can change what I'm aware of by closing my eyes", and suddenly eyes seem to close, and you are aware of only colour black.
Did you REALLY have any choice about being aware of all of that?
Did you have any choice about being aware of the thoughts, or the apparent closing of eyes, or the colour black?
Could you have chosen not to have thoughts about closing eyes?
Could you have chosen for the colour to be green instead?



And let’s keep looking at this with the following exercise as well.

Take a few relaxed breaths to let the dust settle for a while, and then:
Look on your right.
Then look on your left.
Finally, bring your head back to centre, close your eyes and look in front.

Okay, so when you look on the right, the view on the right is seen (whatever that is).

When you look on the left, the view on the left is seen (whatever that is).
And then, when you look in front of you with eyes closed, the view in front is seen (ie darkness/blackness).

So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or blackness if you close your eyes. The question is, can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?

Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?
Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the blackness?

Can you turn off seeing?
Last question, in this whole exercise, what did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?

If you can’t choose what you are aware of, then what else is there to choose?

Love, Kay

[Funkybuddha]

Hi Kay,

So, what happens if you do all that again and IGNORE ALL thoughts, images and labels even the labels sensation, sound, taste, smell, thought, colour? Tell me what you see/notice.

As I sit here on my settee, listening to the birds singing, the clock ticking, my bum on the cushion, feet on the table, eyes closed an seeing blackness, then I ignore ALL these labels then all is just experiencing. I am aware of what is arising, but with no labels there is just a spaciousness that is made out of hearing, seeing, sensing etc

If the colours labelled ‘beautiful sunset’ appear in the current moment, then it is actual experience. However, let’s say you are at work and the label and image appears about a ‘beautiful sunset’ and the actual colours are not the experience in that moment, then the label/thought is pointing to fiction ie thought story about AE.
Is this clear?

Yes it is clear, thoughts point to AE or create a story. If I am watching a sunset, Thoughts can point to (colour) in the moment and label it beautiful sunset or say when I'm laying on my settee watching Tv and a image arises about a beautiful sunset then it is thought creating a story (fiction) when in AE there is seeing/colour of the Tv.


If thoughts say, "I can change what I'm aware of by closing my eyes", and suddenly eyes seem to close, and you are aware of only colour black.

Did you REALLY have any choice about being aware of all of that?

No I never, there is no 'I' to choose, the chooser is a thought

Did you have any choice about being aware of the thoughts, or the apparent closing of eyes, or the colour black?

There is me to have a choice, awareness is always aware of thoughts, if it's not then they don't exist. Eyes closed by themselves (eyes are thought) black what the experience, no one to choose anything else

Could you have chosen not to have thoughts about closing eyes?

Thoughts about eyes closing was what was being experienced, again no one to choose otherwise

Could you have chosen for the colour to be green instead?

No, there is no chooser, just experiencing


And let’s keep looking at this with the following exercise as well.

Take a few relaxed breaths to let the dust settle for a while, and then:
Look on your right.
Then look on your left.
Finally, bring your head back to centre, close your eyes and look in front.

Okay, so when you look on the right, the view on the right is seen (whatever that is).

When you look on the left, the view on the left is seen (whatever that is).
And then, when you look in front of you with eyes closed, the view in front is seen (ie darkness/blackness).

So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or blackness if you close your eyes. The question is, can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?

Seeing of what is on the right hand side is what is happening, there is no me to choose not to see, 'Seeing' can not be turned off, there is no way of not seeing, it is the experience of that moment.

Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?

Same again, no chooser to affect this, 'Seeing' can not not be turned off

Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the blackness?

No me to see or not see, just the experience of blackness that can not be turned off

Can you turn off seeing?

No one to turn it off or on, No it can't be turned off

Last question, in this whole exercise, what did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?

There is no chooser, I was going to say but something feels like a choosing is happening, but this is just a thought that creates a chooser, just like the beautiful sunset

If you can’t choose what you are aware of, then what else is there to choose?

No chooser, no choices, just experiencing

Hope this helps
Love Mark

[forgetmenot]

Hello Mark,

So, what happens if you do all that again and IGNORE ALL thoughts, images and labels even the labels sensation, sound, taste, smell, thought, colour? Tell me what you see/notice.

As I sit here on my settee, listening to the birds singing, the clock ticking, my bum on the cushion, feet on the table, eyes closed an seeing blackness, then I ignore ALL these labels then all is just experiencing. I am aware of what is arising, but with no labels there is just a spaciousness that is made out of hearing, seeing, sensing etc

Hmmm…how can this ‘spaciousness’ be made out of hearing ,seeing ,sensing etc? If This/spaciousness/experience were made from hearing, seeing, sensing etc, then it would be divided. There is no division. That would mean that when sound subsided...that a piece of experience would subside with it. That doesn't point to seamless and wholeness to me. Experience is appearing AS sound, colour etc, not the other way round.

Have another LOOK. How is it known that sound, seeing and sensing is happening? That is why I asked you to IGNORE all labels, thoughts and images. Without any of those, what is there?

I want you to look at a table. Let’s say your table is the colour brown.

Now, IGNORE the label ‘table’ and you are left with the colour ‘brown’.
IGNORE the label ‘table’ and ‘brown’ and you are left with the label ‘colour’.
IGNORE the label ‘table’ and ‘brown’ and ‘colour’ and what is actually there?
Without any thoughts/labels what is actually there?

If the colours labelled ‘beautiful sunset’ appear in the current moment, then it is actual experience. However, let’s say you are at work and the label and image appears about a ‘beautiful sunset’ and the actual colours are not the experience in that moment, then the label/thought is pointing to fiction ie thought story about AE.
Is this clear?

Yes it is clear, thoughts point to AE or create a story. If I am watching a sunset, Thoughts can point to (colour) in the moment and label it beautiful sunset or say when I'm laying on my settee watching Tv and a image arises about a beautiful sunset then it is thought creating a story (fiction) when in AE there is seeing/colour of the Tv.

Lovely, Mark! You've got it! :)

Last question, in this whole exercise, what did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?

There is no chooser, I was going to say but something feels like a choosing is happening, but this is just a thought that creates a chooser, just like the beautiful sunset

Can a feeling choose anything? Whether that ‘feeling’ be an idea or a sensation, can either of those choose anything?

So, what’s going on for you with everything we have done so far?

Love, Kay