seeing not just intellectualizing

[tissetatten]

[quote the preferces that u have do they belong to the body ir the names

Well i guess some are biological and belong to the body, for example food and taste and talents, abilityes, and some are in the mind associated with poitive or negative memories.

I dont see how they have to do with the names.

can you describe flow

Going with life and trusting life, being lived instead of making regretable choises out if fear.

do u think everybody experiances it the same

Yes, i think there are some basis to being awake as i described but i alsow think there are ppl with fantastic insight and experiances and meditative states and so on alsow.

what will it take for me to see things differently

Well i dont know. Ppl seem to have insights and shifts douring all kinds of different experiances. Some it just hits them, some watching a piece of paper, dome words, seeng a picture, during meditation, douring sleep, plantmedicin all sorts of things. I guess u never know what will trigger a change in perception it could be anything for some ppl it has been a dog bark or a mountain or a carhorn or guidence from someone ells or satsang.

[vinceschubert]

Good evening tissetatten,

some are biological and belong to the body, for example food and taste and talents, abilityes, and some are in the mind associated with poitive or negative memories.

Good answer. Would you say that although we may have been born with certain propensities, that many of our likes and dislikes are conditioned ? For example the food we like depends on the country that we are raised in.

I dont see how they have to do with the names.

Agreed. The names (labels) have no inherent characteristics. They are just a convenient pointer to the organism (the body and it's characteristics)
Would you say that I and Me are also labels we use when we talk about ourselves ?

more flow in life

Can you describe how this would be ?

Going with life and trusting life,

Do you mean, accepting what life offers and trusting that it always works out ok ?

i also think there are ppl with fantastic insight and experiences and meditative states and so on also.

Yes, although there are those as you describe, there are also those whose experience is very ordinary.
Being liberated is to be free from the constraints that living under certain illusions cause.

being lived instead of making regretable choises out if fear.

Yes, fear arises from ignorance. Seeing how things really work, dispels fear.

Some it just hits them, some watching a piece of paper, dome words, seeing a picture, during meditation, during sleep, plant medicine all sorts of things. I guess u never know what will trigger a change in perception it could be anything for some ppl it has been a dog bark or a mountain or a car horn or guidance from someone else or satsang.

Yes, most of the thing that you mention you would describe as the straw that broke the camel's back, or the final straw. Many conditions were in place for those triggers to happen.
What started you on the spiritual search ?

love

vince

[tissetatten]

are many of our likes and dislikes conditiond

Yes they are, according to colture and country as u said. I hate asian food but would probonlu not if i were asian for example.

do you mean to exept what life offers and be ok

Well kind of, but alsow to be lead somehow to better things. Like to habe a better intuision or pull pr gravitstion to posetive things.

quote][/quote] what started your spirituall search

Long story, since a kid iv feelt that life is eternal and very long, and iv been depressed even sence then. My mom was very sick and my father angry. It was not a happy home, filld with atguments and depression and negativity, i turned to spirituall books for answers and releef. Iv had a lot of suffering and excistentiall crisis and no matter what els i do in life im never of the path for too long. And now i want to resalve this no matter what it takes. I cant seem to find anything els worth my time, all ells feels like a distraction and fake.

Love

T

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Tissetatten,

Would you say ... that many of our likes and dislikes are conditioned ?

Yes they are,

Would you say that the labels I, Me, MySelf, that these labels are used to group those likes and dislikes? (as well as other things)

Well kind of, but alsow to be lead somehow to better things.

Do you think that accepting what life offers and trusting that everything is ok, means that there is less resistance, and that would lead to better things ?

Like to have a better intuition

Wouldn't you say that trusting life would include trusting what comes up from deep inside you. (intuition) ?

i turned to spiritual books for answers and relief.

Isn't it amazing that such good stuff comes out of bad shit ?

ells feels like a distraction and fake.

Have you heard the saying "before enlightenment - chop wood carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood carry water" ?
What do you think it means ?

love

vince

[tissetatten]

chop wood carry water

Yes wev all heard that. We know life goes on after... But if absolutly nothing would change ppl woldnt look so hard for this.

labels me, myself, i used for likes and dislikes

Yes they are used for that.

things.
Do you think that accepting what life offers and trusting that everything is ok, means that there is less resistance, and that would lead to better things ?

Yes, yes i do..

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Tissetatten,

But if absolutly nothing would change ppl wouldnt look so hard for this.

How would people know ?
Do people believe what they want to be true ?
Now, i'm not saying that nothing changes. Certainly nothing changes externally, but experiencing changes. How can that happen ?
T, you haven't quite got the hang of the quote function yet. See if this makes sense...
After hitting the "Post reply" button, go to the post that you are responding to (below the edit window) and highlight (drag the mouse over it with the left button pressed) the question that you are responding to. Then with it highlighted go to the top right hand corner of that window and click the '' button. this will copy the question into the edit window. click at the end of it and write your reply.

Do you think that accepting what life offers and trusting that everything is ok, means that there is less resistance, and that would lead to better things ?

Yes, yes i do.

If nothing changes externally, but internally there is less resistance, and things flow easier, how would experience be different ?

labels me, myself, i used for likes and dislikes

If these labels point to aspects of the conditioned organism, do you think that Self is also a label pointing to the same things ?

love

vince

[tissetatten]

U know im using my phone. And sthe schreen is small its a pain in the ass to go copy and oaste all the time. Ans no i dont get when to push the quote thing.

[If nothing changes externally, but internally there is less resistance, and things flow easier, how would experience be different ?quote]

I dont know! Thars what im here to find out!

If these labels point to aspects of the conditioned organism, do you think that Self is also a label pointing to the same things ?

Self is again a word we humans made up, just like me myself i. No difference.


I have a question for u.. What made you shift? What was your final straw or what madr thibgs klick for you?

[vinceschubert]

Good evening tilletatten,

U know im using my phone. And sthe schreen is small its a pain in the ass to go copy and oaste all the time. Ans no i dont get when to push the quote thing.

Sure. Phone and ipad are a pain to use. Don't worry about quote function. Just type the question and answer it on the line below it.

I dont know! Thars what im here to find out!

Right. So we have to reduce internal resistance so that things can flow easier.
Can you recognize that internal resistance ?
Is it that you want things to be different ?
Is it that you don't accept what life throws at you ?
It's easy to accept it when it is pleasant. Do you think that you can accept it when it is not pleasant ?

Self is again a word we humans made up, just like me myself i. No difference.

Excellent. So do you think that there is some invisible thing running the show ? ..or is it just a case of the organism responding to conditions that are present ?

What made you shift? What was your final straw or what madr thibgs klick for you?

The question that was put to me was "Is it possible that the mosquito bite of searching can ever heal while you keep scratching it ?"
At that point i realized that THIS IS IT !
That the continual searching was what was keeping me from seeing THIS.
With that, the illusions of a separate self, the illusion of meaning, the illusion of purpose, of responsibility, the illusion of duality (external and internal) all fell away. It was really obvious that the only thing that could be called 'real' (or better still, called actual) was current experiencing, and that everything else was imagination.

love

vince

[tissetatten]

Thank you for sharing ur experiance vince. Sorry im frustrated, lots of things going on in life i wish were different. A im just tired of being here with no meaning u know? I just want to know why, whats the point. Sort of tired of everything and have no real drive.
So finding this out has become a cenrral focus u know?


Ill answer a bit later when i have time hug

[tissetatten]

Can you recognize that internal resistance/quote]

The internal resistace is like a contraction in the chest that makes things feel personal. And the eternal struggle of the mind and different agendas some more selfish. Alsow fear based choises..

[quoteIs it that you want things to be different ?

Yes a lot of the times its that..
Just the feeling of being stuck and not moving or going/being where i want to or wishing for a better, loving more understanding and fun world.

[Is it that you don't accept what life throws at you ?quote]

Well that too i guess when you see bad things happening to good ppl and vice versa.

It's easy to accept it when it is pleasant. Do you think that you can accept it when it is not pleasant ?

Well easier i guess, but i still wonder why we even have a life and why all this is happening, nothing really matters are we just here for fun? And experiance? I cant seem to find a meaning a purpose we just are and if life is not happy then why even bother? Why stay here if all we do is work to pay bills? And there is no gole or higher perpuse?

do you think that there is some invisible thing running the show ? ..or is it just a case of the organism responding to conditions that are present ?

I dont know, i guess the whole we are one conciousness, life living life thing makes it sound like there is an invisable power running everything. But i havent seen/experianced it so i dont know.


Sorry for answeing so late iv been really bussy.. hug

[vinceschubert]

Good evening tissetatten,

Sorry for answering so late i've been really busy..

No worries. It is better to keep a momentum up, but sometimes it just doesn't happen.

The internal resistace is like a contraction in the chest

Ok, good stuff. The fact that you see it is much more important than the resistance itself.
When you see it, focus on the sensations. Yes, i know it seems personal, but when you pay really close attention to the physical feelings, and not what they might mean, it becomes obvious that it isn't personal. It's just stuff that's happening.
Often they will evaporate just by looking closely at them.

Yes a lot of the times its that..
Just the feeling of being stuck and not moving or going/being where i want to or wishing for a better, loving more understanding and fun world.

Ha yes. Now here is a paradox; it's wanting things to be different, that stops them from being different.
You see, you can't make things different. You can only allow them to be different.
The paradox is that if you accept things exactly as they turn up, even welcome them, then that allows the next thing to turn up to be much more pleasant.
A key point here is that if unpleasant emotions are present, then opinion (judgement) is also present.

i still wonder why we even have a life and why all this is happening, nothing really matters are we just here for fun?

Ah, good question. ..and one that you will certainly have an answer to before we are finished.
It's not something that i can tell you. It's what you have to discover for yourself. ..but i can tell you this; it's not what you might expect.

i guess the whole we are one consciousness,

You don't know this. It is just something that you have read or heard. It may be true, but for now it remains a mystery.

i havent seen/experienced it so i dont know.

Yes, not this is the correct answer.
While we are on the subject of seeing and experiencing, have you ever seen something but thought is was something else ?
..and have you ever had an experience based on a lie. For example; have you ever seen a piece of rope and thought it was a snake, and had the experience of fear. (do they have snakes where you live ?)

love

vince

[tissetatten]

Well im trying to let things be as they are and be ok and even welcoming. But some things are harder then others. The contraction i have been watching a while know to see that its just a feeling. Its been lessoning its grip for years now, and i see it as an uncomfortable feeling that shows up. Its quirious to think of why i have assosiated that feeling with what is personal. Where did that come from? So i just notice it now as a seperete feeling.

have you ever seen something but thought is was something else ?

Like an optical illusion or a guy in drag or like and experiance? Thought it was something good that turned out bad? What do you mean?



[quotehave you ever had an experience based on a lie.][/quote]



Well yes iv had panic attacs before and thought i was going to die many times just by falling asleep or do to allergy (scared id choke) couldnt breathe. Or going insane. Being overwhelmed with stuff like reading textmessages and emails, deep survival fear.
We do have snakes but out in the forrest in summer, not easy/common to spot. I havent seen one for years.

[vinceschubert]

Good evening tissetatten,

So i just notice it now as a separate feeling.

Good stuff. Does it happen sometimes that you don't notice it as a separate feeling ? That you get sucked into the emotion ?

Like an optical illusion or a guy in drag or like and experiance? Thought it was something good that turned out bad? What do you mean?

Yes that, or maybe seen a magician do a trick that seems impossible.

i haven't seen/experienced it so i dont know.

have you ever seen something but thought is was something else ?
..and have you ever had an experience based on a lie

yes i've had panic attacks before and thought i was going to die many times

So maybe seeing/experiencing isn't a reliable way of telling if there is an invisible something running the show.
Do you think that this is a mystery that we can never really know the answer to ?
What would you say if i told you that everybody, absolutely everybody thinks that they know stuff, but they really only have ideas about things ?


love

vince

[tissetatten]

do you get suched in to emotion

No id sat almost never. Im id say im almost always aware of my emitions if its not somethibg small or subbtle maybe then it doesnt regester.

have you ever seen something but thoght it was something else?

Yes i resently saw an optical illosion on a ted talk or something. It was the same colour in 2 places but the brain saw it as 2 different..



[quoteDo you think that this is a mystery that we can never really know the answer to [/quote]

No


[quote
What would you say if i told you that everybody, absolutely everybody thinks that they know stuff, but they really only have ideas about things ?][/quote]


Id say some realized ppl know more then me and thats what im here for. The so that is besides the point

[vinceschubert]

Good evening Tissetatten,

im almost always aware of my emotions

When you become aware of an emotional happening, does it change ?

Yes i resently saw an optical illosion on a ted talk or something. It was the same colour in 2 places but the brain saw it as 2 different..

So can you always trust that what you see is 'real' ?

if there is an invisible something running the show.

Do you think that this is a mystery that we can never really know the answer to ?

No

So are you saying that you think you will eventually know exactly how this works ?

Id say some realized ppl know more then me

The difference between you and a realized person, is that the realizes person knows what they don't know, while you expect to eventually know what can't be known.
i'm not trying to be funny here. Getting 'realized' is something that can happen to anybody. It is more a case of un-learning stuff, than learning new stuff.
There are certain things that everybody believes (that they think that they know), that the realized person sees clearly is an illusion.
Maybe you are about to see that seeing something doesn't mean that it has to be right. That possibly what is actual, is different to what you think you see.

love

vince