Serious Seeker Seeking Solace from Seeking

[amrita]

Top answer! Here are questions 2 and 3.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Amrita x

[lunarpig]

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of a separate self begins with thought. It occurs on the heels of direct experience and can sweep attention away from what is in the moment and into a whirlwind of thought. This is especially true just after waking, when awareness is a bit foggy, but the mind is rip, roaring and ready to go with the discursive thought train. However, now I see it is just thought doing its thing that it's done for decades, which is perpetuating the story of I, a work of fiction.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

The feeling of seeing this is liberating, but it's also very normal. I no longer feel constricted. It's like I was insane before, and now I am clearly seeing my insanity. The shift is so subtle that I sometimes think, Did anything happen? Then I dedicate attention to direct observation and realize what happened is that the feeling of a self is not there. It never was, however, I rarely experienced direct observation except during meditation; what's funny is, even though I have been in that here and now state many times over the years, I did not realize what was happening. I was waiting for some big experience of enlightenment to hit while seated in meditation, watching the breath.

So, what is different now from at the start is that I see the illusion of self. I realize what it is. Sometimes there are moments in which thoughts get crazy and I get lost in them, but it only takes a moment to realize what is transpiring and to reground in the moment of direct experience of the sensations that arise and fall in the here and now. It just feels like sanity. I see the futility of all the spiritual seeking that has taken place over the years. There is no regret, because it was simply all part of the unfolding of reality, and there was no self driving the journey. But there's nothing to seek. Everything is in this moment as it should be because it simply cannot be any other way.

There is no self when the thoughts are going crazy either; there are only thoughts. Life is just happening, unfolding. I can see that clearly when I look out at the sky, the clouds, the birds, the wind and trees, the dragonflies; now I see it clearly with my "self". It's unfolding naturally without a driver or controller just the same as the wind blows, the dragonflies fly, the trees grow etc, all without an orchestrator. It all just unfolds in its wonderful and beautiful yet very normal way.

So there's been no big explosive experience, just this falling away of that nagging feeling of I in every thought. Thought is just thought - the brain doing what it does so wonderfully. Even as I type these words, which follow thought, I can see those thoughts are just products of the brain, mental sensations, you might say, used to communicate.

Okay, I rambled quite a bit there...

In gratitude,
Craig

[amrita]

Hey Craig,

Great answer,

Yes sometimes the seeing feels very normal and nothing special, it is simply seeing things the way they really are and in this instance seeeing that Self is just another type of thought. It has no substance and validity outside of thouught.This seeing feels very normal but as this new seeing integrates into your life things become more open and easy. I hope it is that way for you.

Here are the final questions


3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?



Best wishes

amrita x

[lunarpig]

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

This one was answered in the last post.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The apple (banana in my case) exercise did it. There was a vestige of I-ness still in my experience until I used that exercise to truly practice direct experience. It all just sort of fell into place from there.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

I've known for some time now that free will is an illusion, but now I really KNOW it is an illusion. Because this whole world (and universe, for that matter), is one colossal web of interdependent events arising and falling continuously, like the waves of an ocean, it is so clear that choice and decision and free will do not exist. Each seems to exist, but a choice is not made by anyone: firstly, because there is no one to make the decision, and secondly, because all of the innumerable, interdependent parts (or what seems like parts) work together to make that "choice". When "I" come to a fork in the road, the decision is already made as to whether I turn to the right or the left long before I am aware of the decision, as that action (choice) is just one part of a neverending process at work. Like the self, free will, intention, and choices are just illusions.

Concerning control... that is a laughable notion. No one is in control of anything, as there is no one to exercise control. The process that is the universe unfolds in its mysterious brilliance without anyone in control. To be honest, I can really only speak to my direct experience; the preceding statement about the universe was an inference from what I experience directly in my sphere of awareness.

I am responsible for the same things I've always been responsible for, except now I can see there is no I truly back there behind the eyes acting, thinking, owning, etc. There's just this field of awareness, and even the body and mind exist within that field. The limitations of language are going to blotch things up here, but even though there is a sense of responsibility for taking care of my family, being a good steward of the planet, being considerate of others and lending a hand when I can, as well as imparting positivity to others, I realize those things are going to happen on their own. The mind from which those actions arise will continue doing those things without a sense of self driving them. From my recent experience since seeing that there genuinely is no self, I have observed everything unfold just as it has, but it has been free of this sense of self doing the things. I bought flowers for my wife last night, but there was no self in there saying, "Hey, self, you need to buy these flowers to make her happy." I just watched it happen. The thought of flowers arose, as well as the subsequent action of picking the nicest looking roses - without any sense of having to make a choice - and then purchasing them.

6) Anything to add?

First of all, thank you for the time and energy invested in helping me see through the illusion of self. I've been on this path for over 10 years, and I realize the layers of the illusion have been slowly peeled back over the years of reading all those damn books, listening to numerous hours of talks, the hours of meditation and yoga practice, working with Advaita and Zen teachers, but it was not until finding this site and going through the direct observation exercises you gave me that everything clicked into place. This thing that goes by many names - awakening, enlightenment, etc. - has always been here the whole time.

I know you are only an appearance of a separate self from the appearance of my self, and we are all only appearances in this one process, but the appearance is not without merit. Having gratitude is a wonderful experience, and I am truly grateful you have shared this time walking through this process. So from "me" to "you", thank you.

I know seeing past the self is just the beginning. It's so crazy just how subtle the difference is between being caught in the illusion and seeing through the illusion. If you have any final words of wisdom, I'd be more than happy to hear/read them

Thank you again.

Best wishes,
Craig

[amrita]

It was a genuine pleasure Craig. I will submit this thread for other guides to look at your answers and to see if they have any futher questions for you. I will get back to you shortly.

Thanks for your kind words

amrita