Ok

[Freerider]

So maybe we should get back to talking about stuff that represents a problem for you and dismantle all these resistances that create a barrier in front of your "seeing

Thats ok!

[Andrei]

Like for you saying "that Perhaps I havent' still seen" I have a reaction in my body, pressure in throat area, feelings coming but releafe that I don't have to beleave their story.

That reaction is somewhat "natural". It's a defence mechanism that might not even be connected with the belief in the self. What I said might have offended some part of you, some hidden belief, one that might have felt attacked in some way. Even after seeing that there is no "I", other beliefs might still be fine and dandy and the reactivity related to those beliefs doesn't go away. It is too well ingrained. It's like a bad habit.

However, the fact you didn't give in to that reaction/resistance and lash out and tell me to go fuck myself, LOL, means a lot. It's very important that you were able to stay with the initial sensations and just watch them and not let the story take over.

Let's go back to the basics. I think one of the problems which might "sabotage" you from fully relaxing and just letting go is that you think a lot, and contrary to public opinion, thinking is not that great.

You already know you are not your thoughts, so my question is, how come you give them so much weight?

Also, do you practice any form of meditation, or yoga, or walking, or anything that can offer you some you-time, time you can use for staying in DE?
Maybe that might be the answer here.

[Freerider]

That reaction is somewhat "natural". It's a defence mechanism that might not even be connected with the belief in the self.

Yes, I get this reaction a lot with people. I can handle it And nowdays it is easyer just to smoothly focus to the body And pressure in my body, that kind of Blurrs the story in my head And makes it easy to say it is not reality. It is just like you said that even if I know it's I am still attached to it somehow.

Yesterday evening it hitted me that maby I haven done this "right"/ properly. I haven't really looked the reality of no me deep enough. Like that can I really in every situation say there is no me, I haven't done looking properly. That's why I still care aboute public opinnion. Of course I have million stories about my childhood why this is happening to me, but that's irrelevant. Only thing matter is that I haven't really looked deep enough.

Well I don't actually have enough me time, And I can not surely say that I would have that opportunity every day. But that is something I really miss when not having it.

[Andrei]

Yesterday evening it hitted me that maby I haven done this "right"/ properly. I haven't really looked the reality of no me deep enough. Like that can I really in every situation say there is no me, I haven't done looking properly.

We can work on that. No worries :)

You haven't answered:

You already know you are not your thoughts, so my question is, how come you give them so much weight?

And this is important because you seem to think a lot. If you spend 95% of your time thinking and 5% of your time looking, it's not going to make much difference in your life is it?
It's just like when learning a foreign language. If you learn the words but don't practice them in a sentence, you don't create the neural connections that make you capable of talking that language. It's like learning things by heart.

And a second thing: What is the "mind"?

[Freerider]

You already know you are not your thoughts, so my question is, how come you give them so much weight?

It is the same fear we spoke earlyer. Fear that all my suffering was for nothing, because there is no I. That there is no life if I dosent excist. I started laughing when realised this..so absurd.

[Freerider]

What is the "mind"?

There really is not such thing As mind. It's something learned. When I look where it is, I can not say. It's illusion. It is only thinking happening, thoughts happening

[Andrei]

Fear that all my suffering was for nothing, because there is no I. That there is no life if I dosent excist. I started laughing when realised this..so absurd.

The cosmic joke :)
So was your suffering for nothing?

There really is not such thing As mind. It's something learned. When I look where it is, I can not say. It's illusion. It is only thinking happening, thoughts happening

You have the habit of talking about the mind a lot and sometimes it sounds like you're holding it in high regard. Words have power. It might be helpful if instead of using "mind" you use thoughts instead. Mind doesn't exist. Thoughts do.

Are you still feeling lonely?
What other things that cause(d) you suffering you can think of?

[Freerider]

So was your suffering for nothing?

In now monent such a thing As suffering Do not excist. It's only life hapoening And I making it's own reaction what life may or might not mean. So it was just life I thought was bad life. Life with label.

Yes, I have been seeking And trying to understand How mind works for years. For me it's such a releaf to experience that I don't have to Do that. Only thoughts happening, I think are 'mine'. Only life exploring thinking.

No, not feeling lonely. That is kind of uncomfortable feeling in body when it happens. Like body dosen't want to feel it. I have a feeling that my 'I' is fighting for its life in this experience. Trying everything for me to turn back to my old life. Crazy.

My suffering was a feeling that I am not heard. That there is something in me I should be ashamed of all the time. And at the same time causing everybodys suffering just being/breathing.

[Andrei]

Life with label.

Couldn't have said it better!

That is kind of uncomfortable feeling in body when it happens. Like body dosen't want to feel it. I have a feeling that my 'I' is fighting for its life in this experience. Trying everything for me to turn back to my old life. Crazy.

Bring that feeling back into your body. Watch it permeate your being. In order to fire it up imagine how you are going to be alone for the rest of your life. [Ofc, I hope that won't be the case. Just do it now for the purpose of this exercise]
Now, stay with the sensations, no matter how "unpleasant" they are.
Can they harm you? Are they your enemy? Or are they just there, doing their thing, doing what they were programmed to do?

When you watch "unpleasant" feelings, no matter how difficult it is, can you shower them in love and compassion? After all, they just want your attention. They are like children. They just want to tell you a story.

Sensations appear. Emotions appear. Thoughts happen...

That there is something in me I should be ashamed of all the time. And at the same time causing everybodys suffering just being/breathing.

What about now? Anything to be ashamed of?
[The idea here is to test your limits, see if there's any "sense of self" any resistance in the hiding somewhere. If it's getting too personal you don't have to answer.]

[Freerider]

Can they harm you? Are they your enemy? Or are they just there, doing their thing, doing what they were programmed to do?

I had to try this plenty of times, because `I´ would like to stop it and do something else. They are just feelings, not here to harm me but my body gets really tired if I only think these feelings away, and do not let them to be heard.

What about now? Anything to be ashamed of?

No, It,s a fear also. Fear that I could do/say something that would do something that forces other people to face their feelings they do not want to face and make me the one they blame for it. This one is absurd too, that this experience of life could ever cause harm. It´s only `I´ illusion.

[Andrei]

They are just feelings, not here to harm me but my body gets really tired if I only think these feelings away, and do not let them to be heard.

So now we're back at: You think you can control/direct your thoughts/feelings one way or another?
Because we talked about this and you told me that's not the case. Hence me being confused.

What exactly is your reality right now? Where are you situated? What do you identify with?
Who is this Freerider person? [Ofc replace Freerider with your actual name]

[Freerider]

So now we're back at: You think you can control/direct your thoughts/feelings one way or another?
Because we talked about this and you told me that's not the case. Hence me being confused.

No, I don´t think you got me right.

What exactly is your reality right now? Where are you situated? What do you identify with?

My reality is that I have been experiencing me-less, but it don´t feel that I´m experiencing it in every situation in life all the time, there are still situations where I have to get back in now moment and clear my head and calm down. Still I don´t think I am identifying in `I´, it´s just life happening. like if I live in now moment I don´t have to think, just life observing itself. confusing me too because it is not like that all the time.

[Andrei]

What about now? Anything to be ashamed of?

No, It,s a fear also. Fear that I could do/say something that would do something that forces other people to face their feelings they do not want to face and make me the one they blame for it. This one is absurd too, that this experience of life could ever cause harm. It´s only `I´ illusion.

Yes it's a fear but question was if you still feel ashamed for anything? Did this changed your perception of shame/worry/fear or will you tomorrow feel ashamed again for whatever reason?
If the former, that's great. If the latter, not so much.

Don't get me wrong, it's natural to be self-conscious and make sure you don't go to work in your underwear. But if you get to actually feeling ashamed about something, that means there's a deeply ingrained belief in a self that has to act a certain way in order to be happy or make other people happy, or not offend others, or not ruin a certain image, etc.

So now we're back at: You think you can control/direct your thoughts/feelings one way or another?
Because we talked about this and you told me that's not the case. Hence me being confused.

No, I don´t think you got me right.

I honestly don't know how to interpret "thinking feelings away" or "not let them be heard" anything differently than someone who thinks she is in control.

My reality is that I have been experiencing me-less, but it don´t feel that I´m experiencing it in every situation in life all the time, there are still situations where I have to get back in now moment and clear my head and calm down.

It's not about experiencing it ALL the time because that's highly improbable for all of us.
However, there should be an INNER KNOWLEDGE, a change in how you perceive the world, a calm place inside of you which no tide can break.
You have to work, you have to chat to people, you have to focus on all sorts of stuff. But as soon as a red flag appears (a thought of I, a desire for control, a belief in making choices) you should immediately be taken back to that which is, to the now, to that calm immutable place inside of you where none of it really matters.
As to strong feelings of worry and fear, they should be obsolete by now.
Is this your experience?

[Freerider]

I think this Conversation is getting to confusing to me, so maby I just try something more simple. Also perhaps my English is a little bit too 'weak' to really somethimes say what I have And have not experienced.

It's hard for me to get into feeling just By thinking them (like I'm going to be alone) etc. When I experienced me'less then these stories (not reality I see And feel that) lost quite a bit of their power. I still know that perhaps I have to use DE after this conversation that feelings And thought may still happen And I have to deal with them.

I have realised that there is nothing to be afraid of meless, because there newer was a me at the first place. Losing 'me' feels calm, somehow naturally And peaceful.

I would like to try maby a different way to see if I really got the point. If you have some DE rehesrsels that are another way around? By this I mean cutting things that are not real out, maby that would help me to really know if I have experienced meless deep enough?:)

[Freerider]

And Sorry, my real name is Elli:)

And I'm thankful to get your help!