The Gate

Hello Spring water,

My name is Jon , I'm happy to step in and continue guiding you now that Bodhi can't, if that suits you?


It may seem that we are starting from scratch but we will soon reach the same or similar point.

It will help me now if you could tell me what is your current understanding of what 'you' are?

Thanks and warm regards,

Jon

Hello Jon!

Thank you for stepping in to guide me.

what is your current understanding of what 'you' are?

What I am is indefinable, yet intimate and known. I have a hard time saying what 'I' am, but it is unchanging silent and boundless.

I see this when I look. A lot of times I am lost in being a 'me'. This makes me realize I need to devote more time to looking.
I am grateful for this forum.

Renee

Hi Renee,

Glad to assist.

What I am is indefinable, yet intimate and known. I have a hard time saying what 'I' am, but it is unchanging silent and boundless.

I see this when I look. A lot of times I am lost in being a 'me'. This makes me realize I need to devote more time to looking.

An interesting contrast.

What is the one that is lost being a 'me'?

When the being lost is happening, where is the boundlessness?


Thank you,

Jon.

Jon,

A lot of times I am lost in being a 'me'.

What is the one that is lost being a 'me'?

What is lost is the conscious awareness of boundlessness. There is no one lost in being a 'me'....there's just not awareness of boundless self...no attention on it. There is belief that who I am is this limited body being.

When the being lost is happening, where is the boundlessness?

It's still there...hmmm...there is just attention elsewhere...hmmm..

Thank you,
Renee

Hi Renee,

What is lost is the conscious awareness of boundlessness.

Have you ever had the experience of not being aware?

there's just not awareness of boundless self...no attention on it. There is belief that who I am is this limited body being

Are there moments when this belief is seen for what it is?

When attention is on boundless self, whose attention is that?

Thanks,

Jon

Hi Jon,

Have you ever had the experience of not being aware?

I want to say deep sleep I'm not aware, although I realize that I know when I've had deep sleep so maybe there's awareness there. I want to say when I'm really lost in being 'me', although I'm aware of my surroundings, feelings, etc. So I guess no.

But what I don't like is forgetting who I am.

There is belief that who I am is this limited body being.

Are there moments when this belief is seen for what it is?

Yes there are moments when it seems I'm watching from afar at this Renee happening and detached from it.

there's just not awareness of boundless self...no attention on it

When attention is on boundless self, whose attention is that?

Hmm...there isn't attention on it...it just is..itself..as it is. I'm not sure how to say that.

Thank you,
Renee

Hi Renee,

But what I don't like is forgetting who I am.

I understand. But when this forgetting happens, who or what does the remembering?

Is there any control over the forgetting or remembering?


Thank you,

Jon

Hi Jon,

when this forgetting happens, who or what does the remembering? Is there any control over the forgetting or remembering?

There's no control. Remembering just happens. Inspired from an unknown source. I don't know where the longing comes from either.

But I still don't like getting stuck in suffering like I did today...about something so silly...about how I looked. Come on.

I feel I need to devote more to this. I'm not ok with all this vacillating in the forgetting remembering.

I feel I have to spend more time with focus on the intimate unchanging...more more more attention on who I am. Then there's the possibility of detachment from what happens...resting in the truth of being. I don't know. All I know is I can't get away from this longing. Something is not satisfied.

I feel there is doubt that who I really am is the unchanging...not when I know it to be true...but when I'm with others, it's in the forgetting, it's in the unworthiness...I think the doubt overrides this somehow. I think I'm getting tripped up there. I don't know.

How do I be fine with what's happening? Accept it all it seems. Maybe the resistance, the dislike of what's happening is tripping me up. I don't know.

Where are all my words coming from. This is so weird. I don't know. Who or what am I really. How can I call this Renee person mine. Who moves it...who gives it the words and thoughts. I don't know. This is so weird.

Thank you,
Renee

Hello Renee,

. I feel I have to spend more time with focus on the intimate unchanging...more more more attention on who I am. Then there's the possibility of detachment from what happens...resting in the truth of being.

Ok Sounds as though you know what you're doing, or at least what you want to do?

I can't help with that, I'm afraid.. All I can do is point to no self. If you want to take a look to check it may be seen that there never was one.

. How do I be fine with what's happening? Accept it all it seems. Maybe the resistance, the dislike of what's happening is tripping me up. I don't know.

In this sort of situation is there a feeling of 'me' or 'I' that experiences dislike of what's happening?

. Where are all my words coming from. This is so weird. I don't know. Who or what am I really. How can I call this Renee person mine. Who moves it...who gives it the words and thoughts. I don't know. This is so weird.

Good investigation! Just look for the 'I' or 'me' that 'thinks' or 'does' these things. Where is that entity?

Many thanks,

Jon

Jon,

In this sort of situation is there a feeling of 'me' or 'I' that experiences dislike of what's happening?

Dislike thoughts happen. 'Me' thoughts happen. There might be disturbance feeling happening. There's not a feeling of 'me'. 'Me' is just a bunch of thoughts. Boundless 'I' is watching the show.

Intimate boundless 'I' feels personal. I could call it 'me' or 'self'. This is where I get a confused. I'm confused right now.

Just look for the 'I' or 'me' that 'thinks' or 'does' these things. Where is that entity?

I can't find what 'thinks' or 'does'.

Actions and thoughts seem to come from the unknown. It seems boundless 'I' is the unknown but has no influence on what's happening.

Thank you,
Renee

Hi Renee,

Dislike thoughts happen. 'Me' thoughts happen. There might be disturbance feeling happening. There's not a feeling of 'me'. 'Me' is just a bunch of thoughts. Boundless 'I' is watching the show.

Intimate boundless 'I' feels personal. I could call it 'me' or 'self'. This is where I get a confused. I'm confused right now.

Please write down exactly what the confusion is? Even if it reads as contradictions or impossibilities. Sometimes it's just to do with language and the way certain words can be interpreted in different ways. 'I' can certainly be used in different ways.

Hope this is helpful? It will certainly help me and then I may be able to ask some properly helpful questions.

Many thanks,

Jon

Hi Jon,

Dislike thoughts happen. 'Me' thoughts happen. There might be disturbance feeling happening. There's not a feeling of 'me'. 'Me' is just a bunch of thoughts. Boundless 'I' is watching the show.

Intimate boundless 'I' feels personal. I could call it 'me' or 'self'. This is where I get a confused. I'm confused right now.

Please write down exactly what the confusion is?

Yesterday I was upset about something from work. I was home alone and instead of escaping from the sadness...I just sat in the sadness and recognized boundless 'I'. (Seemed like grace that it even happened to look at it like this...because of our discussion, thank you Jon, I am grateful.) It was fascinating to just letting sadness happen. There was some crying happening with no thoughts adding to it thank goodness. There was no problem or desire for it to be different - detachment I guess.

So it vascillates from believing in 'I' with problems to recognizing boundless unchanging 'I'. I as Renee person, I as boundlessness. Both familiar. I ponder if they are both intimate...but it seems there is only the depth of this unchanging 'I'. This Renee 'me' thing seems like just ideas associated with this body. In that situation...what was sad? The physical thing...this body was sad.

I am looking out these eyeballs of this 'Renee' body. So I refer to this body as 'I', this personality as 'I'. This body is the viewing platform for boundless 'I', so no wonder this body/personality is referred to as mine, as 'I's body, I's problems.

Do you get my confusion? I'm confused even writing this. I'm not sure I'm making sense. I use 'I' so much.

Thank you,
Renee

Hi Renee,

Thanks for your post.

I am looking out these eyeballs of this 'Renee' body.

Is that really true?

What "I" is doing that?

Conventionally it is said 'I see' and it is assumed that it is 'me' or 'I' that is doing the seeing. Or that it is 'eyes' or 'the body' that are doing the seeing?

So reading these words on this screen; right now explore the experience.

What is the experience like? Don't interpret it mentally or provide a theoretical explanation. Examine what it's like to see as if nobody had ever told you how it works or what is happening.

Is there an experience of 'eyes seeing' or 'the body seeing' or 'me seeing'? Or is there simply.... seeing?

love

Jon

Hi Jon,

I am looking out these eyeballs of this 'Renee' body.

What "I" is doing that?

There is no 'I' doing that. It's just happening.

So reading these words on this screen; right now explore the experience. What is the experience like?

There is sensation and understanding. There is openness I don't know! :) I don't get it

Is there an experience of 'eyes seeing' or 'the body seeing' or 'me seeing'? Or is there simply.... seeing?

There is simply seeing.

Thank you,
Renee

Hi Renee,

So reading these words on this screen; right now explore the experience. What is the experience like?
There is sensation and understanding. There is openness I don't know! :) I don't get it

Sensation, understanding, openness is fine.

There is simply seeing.

That is great.

So, when you said

I am looking out these eyeballs of this 'Renee' body.

At any moment of seeing, is that what is really happening?

Is there actually an experience of 'someone', 'a person', 'looking out of eyeballs' ?


Thanks,

Jon