Living in enlightenment

[JonathanR]

Hi Euchytus,

. Wow this is incredible. There is no me. "Recognition" is being done by this body for its own role in the experience.

Beautiful! :-) It is pretty incredible isn't it? And do you find that it just takes one look to notice this?

In this case, has there ever been a 'self' as something existing separately from the immediate experience? Will there ever be such a separate entity?


Love

Jon

[JonathanR]

Although, is recognition being done by 'this body' either?

Could it be that there is experience as it is, recognised as it happens but without a recogniser?

Love

Jon

[Eutychus]

Hey Jon,

Beautiful! :-) It is pretty incredible isn't it? And do you find that it just takes one look to notice this?

In this case, has there ever been a 'self' as something existing separately from the immediate experience? Will there ever be such a separate entity?

I see your point. The self cannot be separate from the immediate experience

Although, is recognition being done by 'this body' either? Could it be that there is experience as it is, recognised as it happens but without a recogniser?

Recognition is definitely not with the body as it is observable.

recognised as it happens but without a recogniser

Wow there is recogntion all the time always going on but it is not evidence of a recognizer. Why is it so easy to be a self recognizing when no self exists? What is the nature of such awareness

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[Eutychus]

Hey Jon,

There is only recognition of experiences. No self.

[JonathanR]

Hi Eutychus,

I'm back now.

Wow there is recogntion all the time always going on but it is not evidence of a recognizer. Why is it so easy to be a self recognizing when no self exists? What is the nature of such awareness

Yes! Wow. What a good question.

Could it be that it just IS easy to imagine that this is what is going on? That becasue there is recognition therefore there must inherently be a 'recogniser doing recognising'?

But what if the separation between seer and seeing is an assumption? What then?


love

Jon

[Eutychus]

Hey Jon,

Welcome back, its been a while.

Yes! Wow. What a good question.

Could it be that it just IS easy to imagine that this is what is going on? That because there is recognition therefore there must inherently be a 'recognizer doing recognizing'?

But what if the separation between seer and seeing is an assumption? What then?

Thanks a lot, I appreciate. I agree with you that there is but recognizing taking place. if the separation between the seer and seeing is an assumption, then seeing fails to be. For seeing to be quantifiable it is explained from the experience of its seer, when the seer and seeing are one then nothing may be said about it, it just is


.

[JonathanR]

Hi,

I agree with you that there is but recognizing taking place. if the separation between the seer and seeing is an assumption, then seeing fails to be. For seeing to be quantifiable it is explained from the experience of its seer, when the seer and seeing are one then nothing may be said about it, it just is

Yes. Beautiful.

This separation between seer and seeing is interesting. In many moments or situations, it's easily possible for habitual thoughts to appear that are full of ideas about separation. At some stage, these assumptions are seen through again. Have you noticed this?

We did briefly mention things like Control, Decisions, Choices, Free Will and we can look into that area now.

From where you are now, How does it look? How do things happen?


love

Jon

[Eutychus]

Hey Jon,

Thank you

This separation between seer and seeing is interesting. In many moments or situations, it's easily possible for habitual thoughts to appear that are full of ideas about separation. At some stage, these assumptions are seen through again. Have you noticed this?

Yes,unfortunately I relate more with the separation thoughts than things being as they are. It was not until you brought to my attention the non separation between the seer and seeing that I was able for a brief moment to mentally be in the 'non-separation' having no words to describe what is. I am convinced that non separation is a step closer to reality. I am also aware that I don't fully understand what is being alluded to. I see the moment, metaphorically speaking, being made clear step by step.

From where you are now, How does it look? How do things happen?

I am at a place where all form of concepts I hold are breaking down easily. Earlier it was amazing to see the negative thoughts i dearly held on to as a slave falling down swiftly almost as though it is just a thought that is passing by. I realize that they are but thoughts now. Previously I had lived strongly with these thoughts that made them be almost the unmentioned laws of nature; barriers life had placed intentionally for me. I see that all that has been my choice to hold on to the thoughts.

I also found myself hoping that finally all my pains are now behind me. This form of 'Utopia' is deceptive as life holds no preferences.There is unexplained peace inside that brings strength to look at experiences head on, almost as though one is purposely expecting things to be as they are. Choosing to see life from the view of non separation between the seer and seeing, life is revealed as just life and all jar-dons start falling away.

I can say I am currently at the point where senior thoughts that have resided with 'me' for ages are fading away. When I am unaware of the process it leaves me so worried as to what my life is turning into, so much uncertainty yet such sweet relentless peace 'inside.

At this point it is delighting to say that even these words are in-descriptive of what is happening. I can feel how insufficient words are in explaining what happens.

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[JonathanR]

Hey Eutychus,

Thank you for your beautiful post.

Yes,unfortunately I relate more with the separation thoughts than things being as they are. It was not until you brought to my attention the non separation between the seer and seeing that I was able for a brief moment to mentally be in the 'non-separation' having no words to describe what is

Well, it's good to see both, the illusion of dulaity or separation at work and also the non-duality that can be noticed.

Well done! For seeing that no labels or words can really describe what is. But it won't have been just that moment of seeing Eutychus. You're waking, perhaps quite awake now. Don't rely on memory, (which is another way to have thoughts about non-duality rather than 'seeing' the livingness of it directly, right here and now ... But then again who, or what, 'sees' this? :-)

. I am at a place where all form of concepts I hold are breaking down easily. Earlier it was amazing to see the negative thoughts i dearly held on to as a slave falling down swiftly almost as though it is just a thought that is passing by. I realize that they are but thoughts now. Previously I had lived strongly with these thoughts that made them be almost the unmentioned laws of nature; barriers life had placed intentionally for me. I see that all that has been my choice to hold on to the thoughts.

Really great :-)

. Choosing to see life from the view of non separation between the seer and seeing, life is revealed as just life and all jar-dons start falling away.

Yay! Though is it a 'me' that maintains the seeing of this?

. This form of 'Utopia' is deceptive as life holds no preferences.

Well said!

. so much uncertainty yet such sweet relentless peace 'inside.

Beautiful.

. At this point it is delighting to say that even these words are in-descriptive of what is happening. I can feel how insufficient words are in explaining what happens.

Thank you so much Eutychus.

I'm abroad again this week so writing to you may still be a little patchy but there should not be long delays. I will write to you again later today if possible.

Love

Jon

[Eutychus]

Hey Jon,


Thank you, you have really stepped in where I am most anxious and to be honest I have no idea what is to be. Thank you for offering me hope where all else failed. I truly am not sure what happens next, I am worried that I may not be cooperative enough to see life in its broad form. I am against this troubling thoughts and I hope one day to realize what you see of life today. It is truly hard this journey and irregardless of how far I make it I am sincerely grateful for the efforts you have put out for me. I am weak but this hope will not die.Thank you Jon for believing in me

[JonathanR]

Hey Eutychus,

. Thank you, you have really stepped in where I am most anxious and to be honest I have no idea what is to be.

I know. It can feel threatening and sometimes there can be resistance to the enormity of this but do you see how having no idea is the birthplace of wisdom?

. I truly am not sure what happens next

If you were it would simply be an idea or fantasy about what happens next. Do you see?

. I am worried that I may not be cooperative enough to see life in its broad form. I am against this troubling thoughts and I hope one day to realize what you see of life today. It is truly hard this journey and irregardless of how far I make it I am sincerely grateful for the efforts you have put out for me. I am weak but this hope will not die.Thank you Jon for believing in me

Yes. Thoughts can be troubling, or seem so sometimes.

I absolutely do believe in you Eutychus.

Who is weak? If this hope will not die, perhaps that is because it is indestructible?

What is this hope if it is not love?

Love

Jon

[Eutychus]

Hey Jon,

Yes. Thoughts can be troubling, or seem so sometimes.

I absolutely do believe in you Eutychus.

Who is weak? If this hope will not die, perhaps that is because it is indestructible?

What is this hope if it is not love?

Thank you Jon, the simplicity of your words is assuring.

I know. It can feel threatening and sometimes there can be resistance to the enormity of this but do you see how having no idea is the birthplace of wisdom?

Your words are powerful and wise. I do agree with you that having no idea is the birthplace of wisdom. We have no idea all the time but it is not a decrease in awareness. Infact, I am most aware when I have no idea. So brilliant, so powerful, thanks.

If you were it would simply be an idea or fantasy about what happens next. Do you see?

Amazing,and recognizing these thoughts as fantasies or ideas brings back the awareness of the present moment

.

[JonathanR]

Hey Eutychus,

Remember when we said this...?

. Beautiful. I know that we must use words to describe things but is there a 'you' that 'recognizes' ?

Wow this is incredible. There is no me. "Recognition" is being done by this body for its own role in the experience.

Take another look right now. Is 'a body' found to be ' doing recognition'?

In terms of what it is that recognises or notices, is there any thing, even 'body', that can be found to be 'doing' it?

Take a look at some coloured surface.( Next to me, for example, there is a yellow wall.)

Is there something doing recognition of that colour. If so, what is it that does recognition?

Love

Jon

[Eutychus]

Hey Jon,

Take another look right now. Is 'a body' found to be ' doing recognition'?

In terms of what it is that recognises or notices, is there any thing, even 'body', that can be found to be 'doing' it?

Take a look at some coloured surface.( Next to me, for example, there is a yellow wall.)

Indeed, there is just recognition, the body is subject to the same recognition.

it makes no recognition of its own

[JonathanR]

Hey Eutychus,

Ok thank you.

Now let's look at things like 'Control', 'Free will', ''Decisions', 'Choices'.

What is your take on these?

Is there a self that controls events?

Does so.some choose or decide?



Love

Jon