Self-brexiting

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brexit
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Re: Self-brexiting

Postby brexit » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:46 pm

Hi Kay,

Whether or not the colour labelled ‘brain’ is an object or not, can you at any time actually see your brain?
I can see my brain only in a mirror.

We aren’t denying that the colour labelled ‘brain’ is seemingly appearing as a ‘brain’ when an image of a ‘brain’ appears. However, if the colour labelled ‘brain’ isn’t appearing how is it known that there is such a thing called a ‘brain’?
However, if the colour labelled ‘brain’ isn’t appearing, it is known that there is such a thing called a ‘brain’ because a thought say so.

Peace, Brexit

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Re: Self-brexiting

Postby forgetmenot » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:13 pm

Whether or not the colour labelled ‘brain’ is an object or not, can you at any time actually see your brain?
I can see my brain only in a mirror.
You can see your brain in a mirror? You must be the only ‘person’ who can see a brain past the hair and skull! Can you actually see a brain when looking in a mirror?
We aren’t denying that the colour labelled ‘brain’ is seemingly appearing as a ‘brain’ when an image of a ‘brain’ appears. However, if the colour labelled ‘brain’ isn’t appearing how is it known that there is such a thing called a ‘brain’?
However, if the colour labelled ‘brain’ isn’t appearing, it is known that there is such a thing called a ‘brain’ because a thought say so.
How does a thought know anything? We are looking with actual experience and a thought is actual experience but is a thought aware? Does a thought really know anything about a brain?
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.

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brexit
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Re: Self-brexiting

Postby brexit » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:26 pm

Hi Kay,

You can see your brain in a mirror? You must be the only ‘person’ who can see a brain past the hair and skull! Can you actually see a brain when looking in a mirror?

No I cannot actually see a brain when looking in a mirror.

How does a thought know anything? We are looking with actual experience and a thought is actual experience but is a thought aware? Does a thought really know anything about a brain?
No, a thought is not aware. A thought does not really know anything about a brain.
Peace, Brexit

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Re: Self-brexiting

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:06 pm

Hello Brexit,
You can see your brain in a mirror? You must be the only ‘person’ who can see a brain past the hair and skull! Can you actually see a brain when looking in a mirror?
No I cannot actually see a brain when looking in a mirror.
So, in this moment is there actual experience of a brain, or only thoughts about a brain?
How does a thought know anything? We are looking with actual experience and a thought is actual experience but is a thought aware? Does a thought really know anything about a brain?
No, a thought is not aware. A thought does not really know anything about a brain.
If we look at an apple, is an apple known?
Taste ‘of an apple’ is known
Colour ‘of an apple’ is known
Sensation ‘of an apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell ‘of an apple’ is known
Thought ‘of an apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?

So is a brain actually known or only thoughts about a brain are known?


Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.

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brexit
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Re: Self-brexiting

Postby brexit » Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:50 am

Hi Kay,

So, in this moment is there actual experience of a brain, or only thoughts about a brain?
In this moment there are only thoughts about a brain.

However, is an apple actually known?

So is a brain actually known or only thoughts about a brain are known?
An apple is actually known through actual experience.
So only thoughts about a brain are known.

Peace, Brexit

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Re: Self-brexiting

Postby forgetmenot » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:03 pm

Hello Brexit,

I have had concerns with your responses because they have been parroting the format of my questions, so I was wondering if you were actually starting to get what I was pointing at....and it seems not.
However, is an apple actually known?
So is a brain actually known or only thoughts about a brain are known?
An apple is actually known through actual experience.
So only thoughts about a brain are known.

Going back to the beginning exercise with the picture of the apple, it was seen, supposedly, that an apple is not known but what was actually appearing was colour + label + thoughts about an apple. Now you are saying that an apple is known, when what is actually known is taste, smell, colour, sensation + thoughts about an apple, but an apple is NOT known.

Why would an apple be known but not a brain? Neither of those 'things' are known because what thought labels as a brain or an apple is actually colour, thought, sensation etc, so there is NO actual experience of a brain or an apple.

I suggest you go back to the beginning of this thread and re-read your thread and redo the exercises and LOOK very carefully at what I have been trying to point to.

Also, it might benefit you to read the following book so you get to understand what this site is about, what LU is about and what this exploration is actually about, because at the moment we are getting nowhere fast.

http://liberationunleashed.com/books/ga ... ecrashers/

Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.

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Re: Self-brexiting

Postby brexit » Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:09 am

Hi Kay,

I will report tomorrow on it.

Peace, Brexit

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brexit
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Re: Self-brexiting

Postby brexit » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:01 pm

Hi Kay,
Why would an apple be known but not a brain? Neither of those 'things' are known because what thought labels as a brain or an apple is actually colour, thought, sensation etc, so there is NO actual experience of a brain or an apple.

I suggest you go back to the beginning of this thread and re-read your thread and redo the exercises and LOOK very carefully at what I have been trying to point to.
After re-reading my old treads, reading the book Gateless Gatecrashers, redoing the exercises and looking very carefully at what you have been trying to point to me, I can now make the difference between the actual experience of thought and the content of thought.
You are right there is no actual experience of a brain or an apple. What thought labels as a brain or an apple is just colour, thought, sensation etc..
Regard, Brexit

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Re: Self-brexiting

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:22 am

Hey Brexit,
After re-reading my old treads, reading the book Gateless Gatecrashers, redoing the exercises and looking very carefully at what you have been trying to point to me, I can now make the difference between the actual experience of thought and the content of thought.
You are right there is no actual experience of a brain or an apple. What thought labels as a brain or an apple is just colour, thought, sensation etc..
Beautiful! Yes, experience (sound, taste, smell, thought, colour, sensation) is everything except the content of thought, as thought does not contain any experience in and of itself, otherwise the thought ‘sweet’ would taste sweet every time it appeared.

And when you LOOK can a thinker of thought be found anywhere?

Does colour have thoughts and think?
Does sound have thoughts and think?
Does thought have thoughts and think?
Does sensation have thoughts and think?
Does taste have thoughts and think?
Does smell have thoughts and think?

The concept of thinking appears but can an actual thinker be found?



So let’s move onto the concepts of control, decision making and choices.

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand only in the air, it doesn’t matter which one.

Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, LOOK very very carefully and each time inquire…

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made? Pinpoint exactly,the decision point each and every time when a thought MADE THE DECISION to raise a hand and the hands raises IMMEDIATELY.
What chooses how high the hand is raised?


Please use your own words when answering these questions individually, and not just reformat the questions used into answers.

Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.

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brexit
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Re: Self-brexiting

Postby brexit » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:02 am

Hi Kay,

And when you LOOK can a thinker of thought be found anywhere?
I have always thought that the thinker is in the brain. But After looking that there is no actual experience of a brain, but just an experience of colour. The question of a thinker of thought has become superfluous. When I look, the thought appears from nowhere. There is no thinker of thought to be found. A thought come and say I am the thinker from the previous thought, but this is also just a thought.

Does colour have thoughts and think?
No, colour is a label of actual experience and doesn’t have thoughts and think.

Does sound have thoughts and think?
No, it doesn’t.

Does thought have thoughts and think?
No, it doesn’t.

Does sensation have thoughts and think?
No, it doesn’t.

Does taste have thoughts and think?
No, it doesn’t.

Does smell have thoughts and think?
No, it doesn’t.

The concept of thinking appears but can an actual thinker be found?
The concept of thinking appears than comes a thought that claims the ownership of it. This is only another thought. No Actual thinker can be found.


What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
I don’t know what is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise. I have the feeling that this selection has long been hit, before I had noticed it.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
The choosing just happens, I cannot find anyone or anything behind the doing of the choosing.

What is it that is controlling the hand?
The hand moves by itself, I don’t know how could this happen.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
There is no controller there.

Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
Nothing can be found that makes the hand move.

How is the decision made?
I have the feeling that the decision has long been made, before I had noticed it.

Pinpoint exactly,the decision point each and every time when a thought MADE THE DECISION to raise a hand and the hands raises IMMEDIATELY.
The thought come always after the hands raise and makes itself the owner of the decision.

What chooses how high the hand is raised?
I don’t know what chooses how high the hand is raised. It just happens.

Peace, Brexit

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forgetmenot
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Re: Self-brexiting

Postby forgetmenot » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:24 am

Hey Brexit,
And when you LOOK can a thinker of thought be found anywhere?
I have always thought that the thinker is in the brain. But After looking that there is no actual experience of a brain, but just an experience of colour. The question of a thinker of thought has become superfluous. When I look, the thought appears from nowhere. There is no thinker of thought to be found. A thought come and say I am the thinker from the previous thought, but this is also just a thought.
Can the brain actually be seen on a daily basis? Can you see a brain right now? The brain is the AE of thought and not the AE of colour. It is only when actually ‘seeing’ a brain that the actual experience would be AE of colour and AE of thought. If there is no colour labelled ‘brain’ appearing, then ‘brain’ is AE of thought only. Is this clear?

The human brain weighs about 3 pounds and is made up of 60% fat and 75% water. It contains 100 billion neurons, 100 trillion synapses, trillions of axons, and 500 billion glial cells. It allows you to see, to hear, to taste, to smell, and to feel. It is the reason that experience exists, or...

... is all of that just a very elaborate story?

Look at experience as it actually is right now...

Can you actually find the 3 pounds of grey matter in experience right now?
Can you actually find the 100 billion neurons in experience right now?
Can you actually find 100 trillion synapses in experience right now?
Can you actually find trillions of axons in experience right now?
Can you actually find 500 billion glial cells in experience right now?
Can you actually find the connection between the brain and colours, sounds, smells, sensations etc that you are aware of right now?

And if you cannot find ANY of these things, what else could they be but a story told by thought?

Experience is undeniably real, but the brain is just a tale told by a storyteller (thought) that doesn't even know that it's speaking…a storyteller that isn't aware of anything and doesn't even know that it exists.

The concept of thinking appears but can an actual thinker be found?
The concept of thinking appears than comes a thought that claims the ownership of it. This is only another thought. No Actual thinker can be found.
Lovely!
How is the decision made?
I have the feeling that the decision has long been made, before I had noticed it.
And the label ‘decision’ is just a label about thought and is just further AE of thought.
Pinpoint exactly,the decision point each and every time when a thought MADE THE DECISION to raise a hand and the hands raises IMMEDIATELY.
The thought come always after the hands raise and makes itself the owner of the decision.
Hmm….sometimes the thought seems to come prior to the hand raising, however, did you notice that when the thought to raise the hand appeared, the hand did not always raise? If a thought was the catalyst that raised the hand, then whenever a thought appeared to raise the hand, then the hand should automatically raise….right?

Okay, so let’s try another exercise. The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

Here's what’s needed - A chair, a table and two different drinks. Any two drinks you like are okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.

Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably on the chair and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.

Experiment - Finding the function of choice

Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:

1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.
2. Count to 5.
3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:
Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?



Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.

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brexit
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Re: Self-brexiting

Postby brexit » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:28 pm

Hi Kay,

I still have a question about choosing and decision making?
In the Case of brokers or Stock trader are they making each time at the stock exchange decisions based on their long experiences or the decisions they make just appear?

Can the brain actually be seen on a daily basis? Can you see a brain right now? The brain is the AE of thought and not the AE of colour. It is only when actually ‘seeing’ a brain that the actual experience would be AE of colour and AE of thought. If there is no colour labelled ‘brain’ appearing, then ‘brain’ is AE of thought only. Is this clear?
When I am at butcher or when I am present at a surgeon who is performing a brain surgery, I could probably see actually a brain (AE of colour), but not on a daily basis
Yes it is clear now, that If there is no colour labelled ‘brain’ appearing, then ‘brain’ is AE of thought only.

Hmm….sometimes the thought seems to come prior to the hand raising, however, did you notice that when the thought to raise the hand appeared, the hand did not always raise? If a thought was the catalyst that raised the hand, then whenever a thought appeared to raise the hand, then the hand should automatically raise….right?
You are right, sometimes the thought seems to come prior to the hand raising but it doesn’t have any effect on the movement of the hand.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?
Drink A was beer and Drink B was water in my experiment.
When thinking about their respective qualities, a thought pop up from nowhere saying that drink A is refreshing but it is also unhealthy. I did not ‘choose’ the qualities. They just pop up. They did kind of appear by themselves. The preference for Drink B did just pop up by themselves without my choosing.

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?
No, I did not ‘choose’ what could take the back seat and what could take the front seat. The sequence of event does just happen without my choosing or my participation. The shutting down of the preferences to give way to the counting does just happen without my support. No mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’ was directly experienced. And this function was not seen in action.

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?
Where I made a choice, no mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’ was actually witnessed or directly experienced. Yes a thought ‘I am the chooser’? did arise. The function looks like a sentiment.

Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?
A feeling is a sensation and that’s why it cannot ‘choose’. It is not in the nature of a feeling (AE of sensation + label + thought) to ‘choose’.
PS. Do you know the saying:
“We are fee up to the point of choice, then the choice controls the chooser”.

Peace, Brexit

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forgetmenot
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Re: Self-brexiting

Postby forgetmenot » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:01 am

Hi Brexit,
I still have a question about choosing and decision making?
In the Case of brokers or Stock trader are they making each time at the stock exchange decisions based on their long experiences or the decisions they make just appear?
I want you to tell me! From LOOKING at thoughts (the thought exercises) and from the previous exercise you did on raising the arm and from the exercise you just did about the drinks are stock brokers making decisions based on their long experience of are the decisions just appearing?

What is the AE of a ‘decision’?

What is the AE of a ‘stockbroker’?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting? Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?
No, I did not ‘choose’ what could take the back seat and what could take the front seat. The sequence of event does just happen without my choosing or my participation. The shutting down of the preferences to give way to the counting does just happen without my support. No mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’ was directly experienced. And this function was not seen in action.
Great, so now apply that to your questions about stockbrokers!

In step 3 where you made a choice, did you actually witness or directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Did anything arise that announced, ‘I am the chooser’? If so, what does this function look like?
Where I made a choice, no mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’ was actually witnessed or directly experienced. Yes a thought ‘I am the chooser’? did arise. The function looks like a sentiment.
Where exactly is this “I” that made a choice? Describe this “I” to me in precise detail and where this “I” is located exactly.

What is the AE of a ‘sentiment’? And what does a ‘sentiment’ look like in actual experience?


Sometimes we describe this sense of choosing as a ‘feeling’: It feels like ‘I’ did the ‘choosing’. But the question is, can a feeling ‘choose’? Is it in the nature of a feeling to ‘choose’?
A feeling is a sensation and that’s why it cannot ‘choose’. It is not in the nature of a feeling (AE of sensation + label + thought) to ‘choose’.
Exactly! So when the thought appears ‘it feels like a me who is choosing’, can a feeling actually be a ‘me’ or ‘choose’?

PS. Do you know the saying:
“We are free up to the point of choice, then the choice controls the chooser”.
What is it exactly that is “free up to the point of choice”? There would have to be a separate self to be free, not free, choosing, chooser etc. Where exactly is this ‘chooser’ – describe this ‘chooser’ in precise detail.


Love, Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.

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brexit
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Re: Self-brexiting

Postby brexit » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:35 am

Hi Kay,

want you to tell me! From LOOKING at thoughts (the thought exercises) and from the previous exercise you did on raising the arm and from the exercise you just did about the drinks are stock brokers making decisions based on their long experience of are the decisions just appearing?
What is the AE of a ‘decision’?
What is the AE of a ‘stockbroker’?
from the previous exercise it is clear that the decisions are just appearing.
The AE of a ‘decision’ is a thought.
The AE of a ‘stockbrocker’ is also a thought, because there is no image of him appearing that means no ‘colour’ in AE.

Great, so now apply that to your questions about stockbrokers!
The question is now superfluous. There is no stockbroker doing the ‘choosing’ was directly experienced. And this function was not seen in action.

Where exactly is this “I” that made a choice? Describe this “I” to me in precise detail and where this “I” is located exactly.

What is the AE of a ‘sentiment’? And what does a ‘sentiment’ look like in actual experience?
There is no “I” that made a choice. The choice was just made without anyone or anything doing it.
The AE of a ‘sentiment’ is a label + sensation + thought. A ‘sentiment’ does look like a sensation in actual experience.

Exactly! So when the thought appears ‘it feels like a me who is choosing’, can a feeling actually be a ‘me’ or ‘choose’?
A feeling cannot actually be a ‘me’ or ‘choose’, because in AE a feeling is a sensation + label.

What is it exactly that is “free up to the point of choice”? There would have to be a separate self to be free, not free, choosing, chooser etc. Where exactly is this ‘chooser’ – describe this ‘chooser’ in precise detail.
No one and no thing is “free up to the point of choice”. There is just the function of choosing no ‘chooser’. The ‘chooser’ is just a thought claiming the ownership of this function of choosing.

Peace, Brexit

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Re: Self-brexiting

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:28 pm

Hello Brexit,

Nice LOOKING! :)
from the previous exercise it is clear that the decisions are just appearing.
The AE of a ‘decision’ is a thought.
The AE of a ‘stockbrocker’ is also a thought, because there is no image of him appearing that means no ‘colour’ in AE.
Yes! Nice :)
Great, so now apply that to your questions about stockbrokers!
The question is now superfluous. There is no stockbroker doing the ‘choosing’ was directly experienced. And this function was not seen in action.
And even if the function was seen in action ie there was the appearance of a stockbroker that seemed to be choosing….what is the actual experience?

Where exactly is this “I” that made a choice? Describe this “I” to me in precise detail and where this “I” is located exactly.
What is the AE of a ‘sentiment’? And what does a ‘sentiment’ look like in actual experience?
There is no “I” that made a choice. The choice was just made without anyone or anything doing it.
The AE of a ‘sentiment’ is a label + sensation + thought. A ‘sentiment’ does look like a sensation in actual experience
.

What is the AE of ‘choice’? It is the AE of thought. Just like the label ‘decision’, the label ‘choice’ is given to a particular thought or cluster of thoughts.
Exactly! So when the thought appears ‘it feels like a me who is choosing’, can a feeling actually be a ‘me’ or ‘choose’?
A feeling cannot actually be a ‘me’ or ‘choose’, because in AE a feeling is a sensation + label.
When the thought comes up that says “it feels like I am a person”. What exactly does that feel like? Is this feeling an actual sensation/s or just thought about being person? LOOK carefully.
What is it exactly that is “free up to the point of choice”? There would have to be a separate self to be free, not free, choosing, chooser etc. Where exactly is this ‘chooser’ – describe this ‘chooser’ in precise detail.
No one and no thing is “free up to the point of choice”. There is just the function of choosing no ‘chooser’. The ‘chooser’ is just a thought claiming the ownership of this function of choosing.
Where is this function of choosing happening? What is the AE of ‘choosing’? What is the AE of ‘choice'?

Love. Kay
xx
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.


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