Requesting a second chance.

[Ghata]

Hi Mav,

Yes, you're onto something. :)

I realised that there would always be doubts and questions so I would not be able to anything about that. Doubts will automatically be there if you don't know something. Before awakening all people must have had doubts. When looking, just looking, there are no questions. All experience is seen. Would it be enough to just look as much as possible? Would it matter that there are doubts, as this does not make any difference when just looking? Doubts are questions which are thoughts. They exist in the world of thought not in the world of looking.

Right, doubts are the content of thoughts. Is the content of thoughts ever real?

Thoughts come up with this or that content. Thinking about your stepdaughter or doubting what is seen. Or dreaming of a nice long holiday. All is okay.

When you think of your stepdaughter, you know very well that she isn't in the room. When you dream of holidays, you know very well, that you are not on holidays.

How come you think there is an 'I' When doubting thouts come up, though you clearly can't see it?

It is not divided into hearing, hearer and heard,

I wonder if there is more to it than I realised?

No, there isn't. It is that simple.

Although I have seen through that, the illusion continues. I think you know what I mean?

Could you please elaborate?

Just to clarify. I am not supposed to be understanding something so completely that I can say, 'I get it!' am I?

Right. You are supposed to be *looking* until you can say, 'I am certain.'

Sending love,
Ghata

Hi Mav,

Yes, you're into something. :)

I realised that there would always be doubts and questions so I would not be able to anything about that. Doubts will automatically be there if you don't know something. Before awakening all people must have had doubts. When looking, just looking, there are no questions. All experience is seen. Would it be enough to just look as much as possible? Would it matter that there are doubts, as this does not make any difference when just looking? Doubts are questions which are thoughts. They exist in the world of thought not in the world of looking.

Right, doubts are the content of thoughts. Is the content of thoughts ever real?

Thoughts come up with this or that content. Thinking about your stepdaughter or doubting what is seen. Or dreaming of a nice long holiday. All is okay.

When you think of your stepdaughter, you know very well that she isn't in the room. When you dream of holidays, you know very well, that you are not on holidays.

How come you think there is an 'I' When doubting thouts come up, though you clearly can't see it?

It is not divided into hearing, hearer and heard,

I wonder if there is more to it than I realised?

No, there isn't. It is that simple.

Although I have seen through that, the illusion continues. I think you know what I mean?

Could you please elaborate?

Just to clarify. I am not supposed to be understanding something so completely that I can say, 'I get it!' am I?

Right. You are supposed to be *looking* until you can say, 'I am certain.'

Sending love,
Ghata

[Mav]

Hello Ghata, I hope you had a good weekend.

I hope that I didn't sound as if I was taking your posts for granted in my Nov 27 post. I have been worrying a little about that. It isn't really possible to say how grateful I am.

I started to write a post yesterday but I was unable to finish it so sorry for the long gap.

I am really exhausted. I did write more of this but I can not bring it together. For the last two days looking has been influenced by this exhaustion. At first I looked without acknowledging the tiredness. It did not seem as productive but I thought that looking, no matter what the outcome is, it is always experience of looking. It may have some value. Later I realised the part tiredness was playing in the looking, so I was able to look at that as well. There was a moment of feeling a little more detached from it but I was unable at this point to prevent thoughts from dominating. I am going to try and take it easy today. I expect looking will be less hindered.

When you think of your stepdaughter, you know very well that she isn't in the room. When you dream of holidays, you know very well, that you are not on holidays.

How come you think there is an 'I' When doubting thoughts come up, though you clearly can't see it?

Yes. I am starting to see things this way. What you have said here is nuanced. It could be misunderstood, but I have been drawn in that direction by my own looking as well.

Although I have seen through that, the illusion continues. I think you know what I mean?

Could you please elaborate?

If you were to take a typical 10 minutes out of my day before I started to look into the lack of self and take a typical ten minutes out of my day now, they would be influenced by the self illusion in the same way. Sometimes there is a strong sense that all is seen but not often and it could just be how I view things at that point in time.

Just to clarify. I am not supposed to be understanding something so completely that I can say, 'I get it!' am I?

Right. You are supposed to be *looking* until you can say, 'I am certain.'

I keep thinking about the thing that is aware? I understand that I am splitting awareness into two parts. The awareness and the thing that is aware. What troubles me is that I can't investigate it. I can't see what is happening. Even if it is one thing, what is the mechanism at work here? It sometimes suggests motive but I realise that is an invention of thought. I guess I am still hung up on consciousness; a type of self hidden in consciousness. My focus has turned to the possibility of an 'I' outside of the parameters of what we call Mav. There seems to be evidence for that. I realise you are saying awareness is not a thing so things can't be hidden in it. I understand that much. You have tried to explain but I can't understand and this causes confusion. There can't be certainty in confusion, can there?

I know that there is a lot of feeling of 'I' in this. It isn't unchecked, unquestioned or assumed but it is there as something that does not allow clarity.

Sometimes I feel that I have pretty much done with Mav. Mav is an empty husk. There is no 'I' there. What Mav says, thinks sees, feels, is all just viewed as if viewing a duck (when there is a conscious effort to do so). I did manage to check on this yesterday. Looking at sensation. I was aware that it had not been investigated 'on it's own' for a while. Its clear the part it plays in the illusion but it is so clearly not a part of me.

If I were trying to impress you I would not have written any of this. I can see how it would read as naïve thinking, but I am being honest as required. I can't see the problem clearly.

I may be able to write more clearly tomorrow after I have rested.
Thank you Ghata,
Mav.

[Ghata]

Dear Mav,

Don't worry. You expressed your gratitude many times. What you wrote was perfectly okay. :)

Yes. I am starting to see things this way. What you have said here is nuanced. It could be misunderstood, but I have been drawn in that direction by my own looking as well.

I am looking forward to hearing which direction your looking is taking.

I keep thinking about the thing that is aware?

When hearing, is there somebody who hears or is there simply hearing?

When being aware, look. Is there anybody who is aware or is there simply "awaring"?

Sending love,
Ghata

[Mav]

Thank you Ghata.It's good that you simplified much of what I was saying. It felt as if I were getting bogged down.

I am looking forward to hearing which direction your looking is taking.

I was talking about the doubting thoughts here. I could see that they were thoughts and the importance of that fact. It hasn't stopped me from being confused entirely though.

When being aware, look. Is there anybody who is aware or is there simply "awaring"?

I am not sure what I am seeing here at present. Awareness is a part of it. It's a tough one.
I am hoping this comes to me with time. I can't really express or even identify the issues I have now. I have been avoiding addressing them whilst I making progress and I must admit I hoped that they would not be relevant.
I will try to focus on them and clarify them.
Best wishes, Mav.

[Ghata]

Hi Mav,

STOP! Step out of this think tank.

Go back to sound. Hear the sounds around you. Go beyond names like "dog barking, car passing by." Tune into the pure sensation of sound.

Is there a hearer and the heard or simply hearing?

Lots of love to you,
Ghata

[Mav]

Hello Ghata,

Is there a hearer and the heard or simply hearing?

Just hearing. It's not split into hearing, hearer, heard.

Thank you
Mav

[Ghata]

Hi Mav,

Very good. Stay with the Hearing.

I am sick right now and and will anser as soon as I am well again.

Lots of love,
Christiane

[Mav]

Hello Christiane. I am sorry to hear that you are sick. Thank you for letting me know. I hope that you make a full recovery soon.
Best wishes,
Mav.

[Ghata]

Hi Mav,

I am feeling much better and we can continue. For now I will answer every other day to be on the safe side with the recovery.

Just hearing. It's not split into hearing, hearer, heard.

Right, well seen.

Tell me, were are you at right now with the looking for the I?

Sending love, Ghata

[Mav]

Hey Ghata, really good to hear from you.

I am feeling much better and we can continue. For now I will answer every other day to be on the safe side with the recovery.

I am glad you a bit feel better. If you feel too ill to reply don't force it. I will wait for however long at takes, no problem.

Tell me, were are you at right now with the looking for the I?

While you have been away I have been doing a LOT of looking. I will try to sum it all up in a paragraph but let me know if there is something I have not been clear about.

I can see how direct experience is the thing we must focus on. I can see how all things are seen. I can't find the 'I' anywhere. I am sure I wont find it. When I look I can see how all things come into experience. Body sensations and other senses do not suggest a me when looked at. They are just experience without an experiencer. Thoughts are are same although confronting them seems more powerful. The apparent observer is often the most slippery thing, but when looked at its just another layer of the same kind of stuff (senses and thought combining) Actually it is mainly thought I have found; the initial assumption. Yesterday I spent most of the day looking but I don't have anything new to report. I have not passed through the gate. My concern about experience, awareness, consciousness etc. has passed. I think in part that came up because I was tired.

When looking it is like constantly going over the same old ground, but that might not be a bad thing, so I continue to do it.

I hope you continue to recover well Ghata. Thank you for the post.

Best wishes,
Mav.

[Ghata]

Dear Mav,

it is beautiful to read this :-).

Right, the actual experience is where the gate can be found. Good that you keep coming back to it.

I have a special suggestion for you:

Find your old thread with Jon and me, and read it from the beginning. Take like one or two posts a day if you have the time.

How do you see now what you said back then?
I am looking forward to hearing about it.

Lots of love,
Ghata

[Mav]

That's an interesting suggestion Ghata,
I will get on to it now.
Thank you,
Mav.

[Ghata]

I am looking forward to hearing about your discoveries.

Sending love, Ghata

[Mav]

Hello Ghata,
Here are my thoughts so far.
I can remember how I struggled with some of the posts and I still find them very confusing to read. I remember finding it confusing that 'I' am not writing this. That used to throw up all kinds of apparent paradoxes. I still get confused but I can handle that myself. I used to to to JonathanR for explanations. I would not feel the need to ask about that in the same way now.
I found reading the posts quiet tricky. Its very confusing and hard going. I am aware that things have simplified a lot from that time.
I hope that you are continuing to recover Ghata.
Thank you and best wishes,
Mav.

[Ghata]

Hi Mav,

lovely to hear that things have simplified :-).

Have a new look: Who is reading this? Can anybody be found?

I am looking forward to reading what you find in your further posts.

Sending love,
Ghata