Guide on self-analysis appreciated

[yuksaka]

Question: What is this I- thought and who is thinking it?

I-thought is any thought with a sense that the thinker of it is "me". As you said, this sense can't be unexperienced. There is no thinker of this thought, for a simple reason that it is not experienced. What is experienced is a "sense" of a thinker but not an actual thinker.

Thanks.

[QuantSelfLaFont]

You wrote this:

The experience of seeing through the illusion of self is simply to see sensations as sensations, thoughts as thoughts, and self as nothing but a content of a thought, e.g. an illusion.

And then said you had uncertainty.

Exercise: Comment on the certainty (or not) as experienced now.

[yuksaka]

Exercise: Comment on the certainty (or not) as experienced now.

Uncertainty is experienced as the following thought:
"Is there a clear distinction between a sensation, a perception of what the sensation is or seems to be and a thought that articulates that cognition? Are they separate experiences?"

The following experiences illustrates this:
(1) Experience of a Summer Triangle (a star constellation)
(a) Image of stars (DE)
(b) Perception (or "sense") of a triangle pattern in the stars (DE?)
(c) "It looks like a triangle" (T)

(2) Experience of white
(a) White color (DE)
(b) Perception (or "sense") of an absence of color in white (DE?)
(c) "It looks like an absence of color" (T)

(3) Experience of an "I"-thought
(a) A thought (DE)
(b) Perception (or "sense") that "I" am thinking that thought (DE?)
(c) "It seems like I am the thinker of (a)" (T)

Then the thoughts: "Isn't the experience (a) the same as the experience (b)? Isn't the sensation and the impression/perception of that sensation the one and the same experience?"
"But (b) also seems like a thought, or its more like a proto-thought, it is a perception which later gets articulated as (c)".
"Is (b) a sensation or a thought, I am not sure"

Thanks.

[QuantSelfLaFont]

Lets go back to an earlier statement to look at these thoughts.

there is a feeling that I am the consciousness that experiences the objects that are separate from the consciousness.

Exercise: Break down that feeling of consciousness that experiences the objects. What is T, and what is DE in this feeling?

[yuksaka]

there is a feeling that I am the consciousness that experiences the objects that are separate from the consciousness.


Exercise: Break down that feeling of consciousness that experiences the objects. What is T, and what is DE in this feeling?

Okay, actually I think I now see rather clearly that there is no separate observer or witness of experiences, that there is only the experience happening. However, there is a feeling of separation that is felt mainly in the body and various stories that go with it. I have listed some of the manifestation of this in the following:

DE:
pressure in the head
tension in the head
contraction in the gut
tension in the chest
subtle tension in various parts of the body
feeling of guilt
feeling of sadness
feeling of wanting to escape the present
T:
"I do not fit in this society"
"I am angry with my family members"
"there is no end to this spiritual seeking"
"things were better in the past"
"I am bored"
internal images of angry faces/despondent scene
obsessive thoughts intellectualizing about the present experience

In short, thoughts are just unhappy nihilistic voices/images about the past, present, future, family, work, life etc.... Having seen the illusion that these stories do not have an owner, though, they do not affect me as much as before. They go on tenaciously like a ghostly voice, a thick fog, in the background of my experience. They mostly happen in response to various outer conditions as a matter of habit.

Thanks.

[QuantSelfLaFont]

And thank you. I have enjoyed the journey.

Unfortunately I am not able to Guide any longer due to reasons that are well outside of this productive discussion we have had and outside the boundaries of LU. All is well, circumstances pull me away.

I'm going to have to ask you to start a new string and pick up a new Guide to continue the journey. My sincerest apologies for the shift and best of luck in your continued progress.

Kind regards,
Paul

[yuksaka]

Dear Paul,

Thank you for your guidance. I really appreciate your taking your precious time to guide me. I have learned a lot from your concise and to clear pointing.

Best wishes under your new circumstances.

Best regards,
Yuki Saka