How to stop been "me"?

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Topazio
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby Topazio » Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:51 am

the other day at work when my own mind “attacked” me making me believe that I was being attacked from the “outside “when my own thoughts where poisoning “me” with thoughts of 'inadequacy and control and running away emotions". I was under attacked thousand times before in similar ways and I am ready to leave this non ending leaving hell behind; again and again, maybe different "scenarios", same non sense.
1. Please read through what you wrote above in the quoted paragraph several times and tell me what sensations are being felt in the body as you read it? Really pay attention to what felt sensations are being experienced, leaving all the thought commentary, labels, and judgments out of it for now. Just give me a full report on what sensations are being felt.

Stomach “something”, sleepiness
2. What I would like to propose is for you to find a quiet, safe place where you can be alone. A place where all emotions can freely flow without interruption. Once you are relaxed in this place, I propose that instead of resisting these thoughts, welcome them, like you would welcome a dearly loved family member, a baby, puppy, or friend. This will require that you put beliefs that these thoughts are attacking and poisoning you aside during this time. Instead, I invite you to be curious about them and consider that they may actually be a beautiful expression of life, arising to protect the body and to show you something valuable. As you do this, notice all the sensations felt in the body. Notice if the sensations have a location, if they move, have color, weight, and/or texture. Now, ask the thoughts to tell you why they are here and what they are protecting. Then look behind the thoughts and tell me what is there. Give me a full account of what you discover.
It felt in my body like resistance at first, then more resistance….acceptance for a moment but not really and finally crying like a baby. Location: head, behind eyes….stomach blurry clouds no color…absence of forms for a moment…”embracing” for a moment as I will “get something in return”….and emotions and tears.
3. When you have completed the above exercises then please look carefully again and tell me who or what it is that can be “under attack thousands of times”. I am asking you to take a fresh look, leaving behind everything you have read and heard, and report on your current experience only. What is this entity that can be attacked?
It is nothing that can be attacked a thousand times….it is like if a Look while is happening whatever is “happening “lose all importance…and then when I get involved again I get troubled again…till I Look again! But, while I am Looking, at that moment…nothing has ANY importance.

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Topazio
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby Topazio » Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:06 am

This will take uncompromised courage to look into thoughts…to stare them right in the eyes without flinching. What do you say, are you up for that? If so, then I invite you to complete the following exercises and come back to me with a full report of what you discover.
Yes, I am up for uncompromised courage to look into thoughts
P.S. mostly when I Look I see either nothing or feelings of shame and unsureness, as if I was a child and this feeling comes up "any time I feel "under attack" ( a thousand times).

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LindaR
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby LindaR » Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:59 pm

Hi Dora,
Thank you for having the courage to look into thoughts and acknowledge the actual felt sensations of direct experience. If you are still up for it, let’s continue to be courageous and look into this further.
It felt in my body like resistance at first, then more resistance….acceptance for a moment but not really…
What I invite you to do now, is to go back to that quite, safe place where you can be alone and focus on ‘resistance’ being felt in the body. Welcome the ‘resistance’, noticing that it is a faithful friend that has come to protect you. Allow it to stay as long as it likes. If you notice that you are resisting ‘resistance’, then simply notice that, without any need for it to go away. Notice that on some level it is already accepted, in that it is already here, correct? Just notice, with intense curiosity, what that faithful friend ‘resistance’ is protecting. After spending time doing this, then please answer the following questions:

1. What is resistance itself?
2. What is it protecting?
3. What needs to be protected?
4. What is it that feels threatened?
5. What is resistance trying to tell you?
6. What is behind the resistance? What is behind that?
7. If there is no separate entity ‘Dora’, ‘I’, ‘me’ then there really isn’t anything that needs to be protected, right?
and finally crying like a baby.
Perhaps there is the courage to list out all of the thoughts that were behind the tears? Get a pad of paper and a pen and please list, in detail, the thoughts arising as crying occurred. Mark each thought as (T). Then under each thought, list out the felt sensations that are being experienced and mark these (DE) for direct experience. For example, one of the thoughts on your list might possibly be “I feel guilty for leaving my mom because she needs me”. If this is one of the thoughts that are behind the tears, then it would be included on your list like this:

(T) I feel guilty for leaving my mom because she needs me.
(DE) queasiness in the stomach, pressure behind the eyes, tenseness in jaw muscles (or whatever sensations are actually being experienced).

When you are done with your list, please send it to me.
or feelings of shame and unsureness, as if I was a child and this feeling comes up "any time I feel "under attack" ( a thousand times).
It is common to assume we are ‘feeling’ when it is actually just a thought. Take a close look, when you say, ‘feelings of shame and unsureness’ do you really mean ‘thoughts of shame and unsureness’?

1. If it is FEELINGS of shame and unsureness, please tell me how ‘shame’ and ‘unsureness’ are experienced.
2. What sensations are felt?
3. What is it that determines those sensations translate into ‘shame’ and ‘unsureness’?
4. What is it that is there to receive ‘Shame’ and ‘unsureness’?
this feeling comes up "any time I feel "under attack" ( a thousand times).
Same as above. Is there actually a ‘feeling’ or is it really just a ‘thought’? Is it more true in direct experience to say: “anytime I feel under attack’? Or does it feel truer to say “anytime I THINK under attack”?

1. Again, If it is FEELINGS of being under attack, please tell me how ‘being under attack’ is experienced.
2. What sensations are felt?
3. What is it that determines those sensations translate into ‘being under attack’?
4. What is it that is there to be ‘under attack’?
P.S. mostly when I Look I see either nothing
It is nothing that can be attacked a thousand times….it is like if a Look while is happening whatever is “happening “lose all importance…
Beautiful. How does it feel to experience ‘nothing’?
and then when I get involved again I get troubled again…till I Look again! But, while I am Looking, at that moment…nothing has ANY importance.
Hehe. Yes, when the contents of thoughts are being believed to be true, it causes all sorts of suffering, doesn’t it? So why not LOOK every time it is noticed that the contents of thoughts are being believed? ;-)

I have given you a lot to look into in this post. Feel free to take as much time as you need. If you prefer, you can also do one exercise at a time and post your response as you complete the exercise. I will wait to reply until all responses have been posted.

With Love,
Linda

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LindaR
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby LindaR » Thu Feb 25, 2016 12:42 pm

Hi Dora,
I just sent you a private message. If you look at the top of the screen you will see the blue box that says "User Control Panel (1 new message) View Your Posts". To read the message just click on (1 new message). Let me know if you have any trouble retrieving it :-)

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Topazio
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby Topazio » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:03 am

It felt in my body like resistance at first, then more resistance….acceptance for a moment but not really…
What I invite you to do now, is to go back to that quite, safe place where you can be alone and focus on ‘resistance’ being felt in the body. Welcome the ‘resistance’, noticing that it is a faithful friend that has come to protect you. Allow it to stay as long as it likes. If you notice that you are resisting ‘resistance’, then simply notice that, without any need for it to go away. Notice that on some level it is already accepted, in that it is already here, correct? Just notice, with intense curiosity, what that faithful friend ‘resistance’ is protecting. After spending time doing this, then please answer the following questions:

1. What is resistance itself?
2. What is it protecting?
3. What needs to be protected?
4. What is it that feels threatened?
5. What is resistance trying to tell you?
6. What is behind the resistance? What is behind that?
7. If there is no separate entity ‘Dora’, ‘I’, ‘me’ then there really isn’t anything that needs to be protected, right?
1- Resistance is a thought
2- Thoughts "protect me from" Reality
3- Nothing needs protection
4- ego feels threatened
5- resistance is trying to tell me that I am ok the way I am and I do not need a change
6-nothing is behind the resistance
7-there is nothing that needs to be protected.

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Topazio
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby Topazio » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:44 am

and finally crying like a baby.

Perhaps there is the courage to list out all of the thoughts that were behind the tears? Get a pad of paper and a pen and please list, in detail, the thoughts arising as crying occurred. Mark each thought as (T). Then under each thought, list out the felt sensations that are being experienced and mark these (DE) for direct experience. For example, one of the thoughts on your list might possibly be “I feel guilty for leaving my mom because she needs me”. If this is one of the thoughts that are behind the tears, then it would be included on your list like this:

(T) I feel guilty for leaving my mom because she needs me.
(DE) queasiness in the stomach, pressure behind the eyes, tenseness in jaw muscles (or whatever sensations are actually being experienced).

When you are done with your list, please send it to me.
insecurity T
inferiority T
defenseless T
face muscle twitching like when someone try not to cry DE and T (about "when someone ...etc")
fear T
Anger T
I do not care about "anything" T
this is not real anyways T

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Topazio
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby Topazio » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:01 am

or feelings of shame and unsureness, as if I was a child and this feeling comes up "any time I feel "under attack" ( a thousand times).

It is common to assume we are ‘feeling’ when it is actually just a thought. Take a close look, when you say, ‘feelings of shame and unsureness’ do you really mean ‘thoughts of shame and unsureness’?

1. If it is FEELINGS of shame and unsureness, please tell me how ‘shame’ and ‘unsureness’ are experienced.
2. What sensations are felt?
3. What is it that determines those sensations translate into ‘shame’ and ‘unsureness’?
4. What is it that is there to receive ‘Shame’ and ‘unsureness’?
1- I realized now that they are thought
2- discomfort is felt (T)
3- So called mind determines those sensations to "explain" WHAT IS IN REALITY HAPPENING.
4-NOTHING is there

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Topazio
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby Topazio » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:12 am

this feeling comes up "any time I feel "under attack" ( a thousand times).

Same as above. Is there actually a ‘feeling’ or is it really just a ‘thought’? Is it more true in direct experience to say: “anytime I feel under attack’? Or does it feel truer to say “anytime I THINK under attack”?

1. Again, If it is FEELINGS of being under attack, please tell me how ‘being under attack’ is experienced.
2. What sensations are felt?
3. What is it that determines those sensations translate into ‘being under attack’?
4. What is it that is there to be ‘under attack’?
1- It is experienced as if I have no control and that feeling scares me. (T)
2- Turmoil in my head ( T)
3- Life happening in the form of "facts" and "me" trying to change and control LIFE (T) idiotic! (T)
4- Nothing is "there" to be under attack (T)

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Topazio
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby Topazio » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:18 am

P.S. mostly when I Look I see either nothing
It is nothing that can be attacked a thousand times….it is like if a Look while is happening whatever is “happening “lose all importance…

Beautiful. How does it feel to experience ‘nothing’?

and then when I get involved again I get troubled again…till I Look again! But, while I am Looking, at that moment…nothing has ANY importance.
Experiencing nothing does not "feels"...is just "silence"

With LOVE,

Dora

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LindaR
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby LindaR » Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:16 pm

Hi Dora,
Great to hear back from you and thank you for completing the exercises. It appears that you had a few good insights :-). I am going to focus on just a couple points from the exercises for now, and we will come back to the others a little later.
Thoughts "protect me from" Reality
When you say “protect me” do you mean protect the body? protect a separate entity called 'Dora'? Or protect something else?
So called mind determines those sensations to "explain" WHAT IS IN REALITY HAPPENING.
I suspect this is a translation issue again but for clarification does it feel more true to say “So called mind DETERMINES those sensations…” (can thoughts determine anything?),or does it feel more true to say “So called mind LABELS those sensations…”?
Perhaps there is the courage to list out all of the thoughts that were behind the tears? Get a pad of paper and a pen and please list, in detail, the thoughts arising as crying occurred. Mark each thought as (T). Then under each thought, list out the felt sensations that are being experienced and mark these (DE) for direct experience.
insecurity T
inferiority T
defenseless T
face muscle twitching like when someone try not to cry DE and T (about "when someone ...etc")
fear T
Anger T
I do not care about "anything" T
this is not real anyways T
When you read the list you wrote, is it recognized how easily thoughts such as insecurity, inferiority, defenseless were identified but the experience (DE) behind those labels were not recognized when doing this exercise (i.e., the only direct experience you listed was “face muscles twitching”)? This is important to notice.

Society has conditioned us to focus on thoughts to the point that we no longer, or rarely, recognize what is actually being experienced before thoughts come in and start labeling the experience. As a result, we BELIEVE that the content of thoughts is true. We BELIEVE that the content of thoughts is reality. But when we look into direct experience we find that the content of thoughts can never accurately describe what is being experienced. So, our focus is to shift perception from thoughts to direct experience, which is the only true, verifiable thing going on, correct? So, I invite you to take another look in direct experience to see if this is true.

Exercise:
Please take each word on your list below that you have accurately seen as thoughts. Beside each word tell me what specific sensations are being experienced in the body that are then being labeled ‘insecurity’, ‘inferiority’ ect.? Be very specific and detailed about these sensations that are being felt. Let’s get comfortable switching the focus from thoughts to what is actually being experienced, shall we? Let me have your list with the felt sensations when you are done.

insecurity T
inferiority T
defenseless T
fear T
Anger T
I do not care about "anything" T
this is not real anyways T

Love and Warmth,
Linda

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Topazio
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby Topazio » Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:57 am

Thoughts "protect me from" Reality
When you say “protect me” do you mean protect the body? protect a separate entity called 'Dora'? Or protect something else?
When I said "protect me" I meant " ego"

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Topazio
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby Topazio » Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:01 am

So called mind determines those sensations to "explain" WHAT IS IN REALITY HAPPENING.
I suspect this is a translation issue again but for clarification does it feel more true to say “So called mind DETERMINES those sensations…” (can thoughts determine anything?),or does it feel more true to say “So called mind LABELS those sensations…”?

Yes, so called mind labels sensations.

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LindaR
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby LindaR » Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:25 pm

Thanks Dora. I will wait until you have completed the exercise before I respond :-).

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Topazio
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby Topazio » Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:02 am

Exercise:
Please take each word on your list below that you have accurately seen as thoughts. Beside each word tell me what specific sensations are being experienced in the body that are then being labeled ‘insecurity’, ‘inferiority’ ect.? Be very specific and detailed about these sensations that are being felt. Let’s get comfortable switching the focus from thoughts to what is actually being experienced, shall we? Let me have your list with the felt sensations when you are done.
insecurity T No sensation
inferiority T No sensation
defenseless T, the same
fear T No sensation
Anger T nothing
I do not care about "anything" T None
this is not real anyways T----nothing----
When I LOOK at those words I have no sensation

With Love,
Dora

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LindaR
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Re: How to stop been "me"?

Postby LindaR » Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:08 pm

insecurity T No sensation
inferiority T No sensation
defenseless T, the same
fear T No sensation
Anger T nothing
I do not care about "anything" T None
this is not real anyways T----nothing----
When I LOOK at those words I have no sensation
How is this possible, Dora? Are you dead?


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