The Fog Out

[Ruslan]

Jonathan: Look at these. Look directly at sensations. Place your hand on a table face down. There is sensation, of pressure or warmth or whatever, where hand-meets-table. Notice only this sensation. Close your eyes. right now, is there an experience of 'a body' 'experiencing or creating sensation', or is there simply the direct sensation?

Ruslan: I tried the ‘hand’ experiment for a couple of days, sometimes in public transport, sometimes at home or some locations like Bars, Pizza places and so on.
Surprise, it feels exactly like in childhood when I was touching an object,I could disappear in the sensation of touch with my eyes closed. And it was a very pleasant thing to experience.
So I really liked to do this exercise, because I could get there… again.

Jonathan: Does a self experience the sensation?
Ruslan: Everything disappears, the body disappears and,if there is no body, then there is no self; at least that is what is being perceived.

Thanks

[JonathanR]

HI Ruslan,

I tried the ‘hand’ experiment for a couple of days, sometimes in public transport, sometimes at home or some locations like Bars, Pizza places and so on.

Good. Well done.

Surprise, it feels exactly like in childhood when I was touching an object,I could disappear in the sensation of touch with my eyes closed. And it was a very pleasant thing to experience.

Excellent. It's interetsing that you felt this in childhood. This is where we want to be at this stage in the inquiry. Experience of pure sensation.

So I really liked to do this exercise, because I could get there… again.

Yes. In fact you can try this, not only with the sensation of 'touch' but with each of the senses. It is possible to notice each of the five senses .

For example, with eyes closed, become aware of whatever is heard. This can be quiet sounds such as breathing or louder sounds such as doors banging, people talking. Just notice the hearing. Notice the direct sensation of hearing. And like the hand experiment, look to see if a 'self' experiences the hearing, or if there is just the hearing? Is it like disappearing in the sensation of hearing?

Everything disappears, the body disappears and,if there is no body, then there is no self; at least that is what is being perceived.

Good. Is the experience similar for hearing? Is there an experience of 'a body hearing' or does the body disappear in this experiment too, leaving only the immediate sensation of hearing?

Best,

Jon

[Ruslan]

Jonathan: It is possible to notice each of the five senses .

Ruslan: Yesterday I tried the ‘hearing’ and to my surprise it was easy to do. I use to hum mantras, or listen to music in headphones and I could easily get into melting everything into sound. It was quick and easy.
In the evening I tried the ‘seeing’, the sight, so, to say. I closed my eyes and, instead of following my mental images, I started to ‘look’ at ‘darkness’.

Here I have to mention that when I ‘look’ during daytime, my face would smile and I would feel a joy just from ‘looking’ – it is bringing joy into perception.

So, I started to ‘look’ at ‘darkness’ ---- and suddenly joy popped in.
How is that possible, you look and see darkness and you perceive joy, your body covers with joy, in the end you almost become that joy.

I will keep my ‘looking’ at ‘darkness’.


Thanks

Ruslan

[JonathanR]

Hi Ruslan,

Yesterday I tried the ‘hearing’ and to my surprise it was easy to do. I use to hum mantras, or listen to music in headphones and I could easily get into melting everything into sound. It was quick and easy.

Good. So how would you answer my questions then?

'look to see if a 'self' experiences the hearing, or if there is just the hearing? Is it like disappearing in the sensation of hearing?'

Here I have to mention that when I ‘look’ during daytime, my face would smile and I would feel a joy just from ‘looking’ – it is bringing joy into perception.

So, I started to ‘look’ at ‘darkness’ ---- and suddenly joy popped in.
How is that possible, you look and see darkness and you perceive joy, your body covers with joy, in the end you almost become that joy.

Great! Is is very good that you notice sensation directly like this, whether it is Touch, Hearing, Seeing, Smell or Taste.

So there is this dissapearing into sensation, this joy. This is directly experienced, isn't it? It is not just an idea about a feeling but, for examle, the darkness is really experienced?

Who or what is doing the experiencing of this? Look for the experiencer.... is there a separate 'person' doing the experiencing, making the sensation happen? Or does the sensation just happen?


Jon

[Ruslan]

Jonathan: Good. So how would you answer my questions then?

'look to see if a 'self' experiences the hearing, or if there is just the hearing?
Is it like disappearing in the sensation of hearing?'

Ruslan: Yes, everything disappears in the sensation of hearing/touch. Or when you close your eyes, it is the same – everything disappears into ‘darkness’.

Jonathan: Who or what is doing the experiencing of this?
Look for the experiencer.... is there a separate 'person' doing the experiencing, making the sensation happen? Or does the sensation just happen?

Ruslan: My experience, my direct experience, shows a continuous flow of sensations.
What marvels me, is how all this flow of sensations, thoughts ends up making stories, Ego and everything else, and it does so on daily basis. Every morning, day and evening


Thanks

Ruslan

[JonathanR]

Ruslan,

Yes, everything disappears in the sensation of hearing/touch. Or when you close your eyes, it is the same – everything disappears into ‘darkness’.

Good.

My experience, my direct experience, shows a continuous flow of sensations.
What marvels me, is how all this flow of sensations, thoughts ends up making stories, Ego and everything else, and it does so on daily basis. Every morning, day and evening

Yes. That is a marvel. Quite mysterious.

So at any moment there is this continuous flow of sensations experienced and very often there are also thoughts, stories as you say.

So, in any given moment sensations may be directly experienced, the appearance of thoughts may also be experienced but the content of thoughts, what thoughts are ABOUT is never happening and is simply ideas?

If you are not sure about this take a look at your experience to check.


I am so pleased this inquiry is working for you.

Jon.

[Ruslan]

Jonathan: So,…, the appearance of thoughts may also be experienced but the content of thoughts, what thoughts are ABOUT is never happening and is simply ideas?
If you are not sure about this take a look at your experience to check.

Ruslan: What a coincidence Jon, what a coincidence. Today in the afternoon I felt like I want to visit my ex-girlfriend, well, for a reason… like returning some books.
The decision was made about 2:00 pm today and I left it for evening around 8:00pm. So, I had 6 hours to wait…
What I was perceiving, so to speak, during this 6 hours, was an avalanche of thought, emotions, bodily sensations, and all of this in a fireworks melting pot of hormones.
I perceived a lot of ‘what is going to happen’ versions sketched by thoughts/feelings/emotions/bodily sensations etc.
I mean, I had a good outcome of the ‘visiting’. Then I had a bad one, followed by an emotional one coupled with erotica one, and a frustrated one on top. And all of these in circle, giving rounds and rounds and rounds.

You asked me to check my experience whether … the appearance of thoughts may also be experienced but the content of thoughts is never happening and is simply ideas... true or false.

So, here is the end of my today ex-girlfriend story, I didn't meet her in person. Yes I went to her place without phone calling (something like ‘an unexpected visit’, or ‘I was just passing by’ thing), I called at the door bell and… it took a while until someone opened the door, and… it was not her, but her mother (who was seeing me for the first time ever); she kindly let me in telling that her daughter was in Sweden for a couple of weeks and that she’ll be back after 10th of the month.
To sum it up, is it true or not that thought become happenings? Are the thoughts simply experienced, simple ideas or do they become real facts?

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY JON?

10x

Ruslan.

[JonathanR]

Ruslan,

Hi, yes. That is a very good descripton and example of many thoughts. scenarios, stories appearing, isn't it?

It is really worth noticing the appearance of sensations that really happen and that are experienced immediately.
And also the experience of thoughts appearing, but what about the content of these thoughts? Are these stories ever actually happening, right here and now?


How about things like 'decisions' Ruslan? How do decisons happen? Is there a 'decider' A one that 'thinks and decides' or is something else going on?

Is credit being given to a self for 'taking decisions' when self is only ever a story about a self?

Thank you,

Jon

[Ruslan]

Jonathan: And also the experience of thoughts appearing, but what about the content of these thoughts? Are these stories ever actually happening, right here and now?

Ruslan: Are these stories ever actually happening… give me one more day to ‘look’.

[Ruslan]

Jonathan: How about things like 'decisions' Ruslan?

How do decisons happen?

Ruslan: In my case I would rarely make a quick decision in ‘important areas’ of my life. It started when I was about 20. Decision are being left for ‘space around/events unfolding’ thing to decide and choose whether a decision is being accepted or rejected.
Is there a 'decider' A one that 'thinks and decides' or is something else going on? – Yes, it is the ‘space around/events unfolding’ thing.

But to be honest, I use this method only for ‘big’ things, small decision are often left to mind chatter.
With ‘looking’ everything changes in every moment, hmmmm, decisions… let me ‘look’ for a couple of days Jon.


Thanks

Ruslan

[JonathanR]

Hi Ruslan,

That's fine. Take your time. If you like I can give you one or two exercises that can help in looking at 'decisions'?


Thanks,

Jon

[Ruslan]

Yes, please!!

[JonathanR]

OK Ruslan,

It is usually assumed that 'I decide' (this or that). For example, there can be the thought 'I decided to drive to the next town' and it can be said 'I decided this'. But is this really what is going on? Let's look.

In a few minutes go and make yourself a warm drink. Tea, coffee, or whatever. Once the drink is made come back to the screen and read the rest of this exercise. Try not to read ahead now. Wait until you return to read the next bit...




Now that you are at the screen again, examine what just happened.

Was there an experience of a decider deciding to stand up?

Was there a decision to move the body towards the kitchen, or did body move without any thoughts at all about how it should move?

Was there an exerience of many complex decisions about how the body should move so that walking should happen and not falling over?

Was a decision made about speed of walking , or did that just happen on its own?

Was there a decision about which drink to make? Perhaps it seemed that there was a decision about this? A 'choice'?

We can explore 'choice' and 'choosing' between alternatives in another exercise, if you wish?


Best ,

Jon

[Ruslan]

Jonathan:
Now that you are at the screen again, examine what just happened.

Was there an experience of a decider deciding to stand up?
- No!

Was there a decision to move the body towards the kitchen, or did body move without any thoughts at all about how it should move?
- No!

Was there an exerience of many complex decisions about how the body should move so that walking should happen and not falling over?
- No!

Was a decision made about speed of walking , or did that just happen on its own?
- No!

Was there a decision about which drink to make? Perhaps it seemed that there was a decision about this? A 'choice'?
- Yes!

Jonathan:
We can explore 'choice' and 'choosing' between alternatives in another exercise, if you wish?
-Yes, please!

Thank you.

Ruslan

[Ruslan]

By the way Jon,

I'm starting to enjoy our inquiry, well, yes, I do.

Thank you for your willingness, Jonathan.