Stickman requests a guide

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Aragon
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Re: Stickman requests a guide

Postby Aragon » Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:33 pm

Hi Darren,
I can feel the scalp and move it.
- What is actual experience of ‘I’. What is actual experience of scalp? What is actual experience of ‘feeling the scalp’? Just use the blocks, what is there?

The concepts and ideas seem to be the things that make sense of the experience; make it 'known.'
- Okay, concepts make sense of what is happening. But what is happening without the concepts. It’s not that you need to ditch the story, just recognise what is story and what is not.

Otherwise i would just be blindly walking through the windy day and never even noticing that something was blowing the bag around.
- Thought ‘says’ it would be like this. You can’t figure this with thought.

I have a strong sense of agency. Are you saying there is no such thing at all?
- I am asking you to question your assumptions, then to look and to see it. I can see you are struggling with this. But if you take it as a new belief it isn’t going to do you any good at all. You need to loosen up around this. You could look at this: http://documentarystorm.com/horizon-the-secret-you/ around 49:30 – but this is just to loosen you up, you need to see it for yourself. I'm not a scientist, and don't want to discuss it, just hoping it will make you look - this can be seen in experience.

This can be done knowingly, clearly, in awareness, or on autopilot whilst thinking about the solicitor's appointment later today.
- Whether it is done in awareness or on autopilot, is it not still just happening?

"Thought jumps in after the action." Can't thought precede the action? I haven't got up to get a drink yet. I've deliberately delayed the process. There has been an intervention. Now i can sit here pondering what i will get to drink. Water, soya milk, cordial? I can ponder the infromation stored in the mind about each of the options. I could have coffee but the mind remembers the negative effects of coffee so i'll choose decaff or have water instead. Agency.
- delaying happens, pondering happens – is there really agency or does thought ‘say’ so. Thought says the sun will rise, and it does!

There is a sense of sitting in open awareness, apprehending all that comes to the senses as the spider apprehends all that falls into it's web. The web is there waiting.
- Are there two things or one? Isn’t sitting in open awareness, still awareness of sensation? Can you isolate awareness?

Actual existence of yesterday is a thought story
- Good

but i can verify that roughly with other people and i know where i can find my diary and laptop, where the office is and where the fob to get me through the door is and how to use it etc etc.
- Does yesterday exist in this moment? Is it there? Can you find it?


The quote function would really help me with this. I’m struggling to see what your missing from the questions…. but it’s down to you.

Be well,

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Stickman
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Re: Stickman requests a guide

Postby Stickman » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:30 pm

The quote function would really help me with this. I’m struggling to see what your missing from the questions…. but it’s down to you. Well, i can cut and paste as you can see and then i go to the only Quote function i can see which is back on your piece, at the top. I click on that and the whole screen reshifts and comes out in some way i can't make sense of.

OH! It's just those building blocks!!

Scalp..feeling/touch, mental image. I....Feeling/touch, mental image, thought story, thought label, sounds, mental image, thought label, mental image, sights, thought labels, sound, thought story. Aghhhhhh!

I'll be back!

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Aragon
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Re: Stickman requests a guide

Postby Aragon » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:36 pm

Strange! Can you write the question, then the answer underneath, or something, anything!!!
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Stickman
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Re: Stickman requests a guide

Postby Stickman » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:38 am

The experience of scalp and 'i' is as i posted above but it's such a strong idea. I keep falling into it; believing it fully. 'I?' The idea is believed. It isn't the experience, it's a story about it.

Such a strong sense of ME in the gut and the heart and the head. But the building blocks....physical feeling/touch, mental image, thought label, thought story, stuff happens, thoughts label and grasp; tell a story.

Ok. I hate to say it, but..no awareness without an object. Touch/feeling, thoughts, sights, sounds, thought stories, mental images..

No yesterday in this moment.

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Aragon
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Re: Stickman requests a guide

Postby Aragon » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:24 am

Nice Darren!

Where are you with how things happen?
Ok. I hate to say it, but..no awareness without an object. Touch/feeling, thoughts, sights, sounds, thought stories, mental images..
Touch/feeling, thoughts, sights, sounds, thought stories, mental images.. - do any of these things arise through agency?

Is there a controller, a decider, an author of actions?

Speak soon,

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Stickman
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Re: Stickman requests a guide

Postby Stickman » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:22 pm

Well, i'm not sure how much of this comes from experience or whether it's the adoption of a new idea but it would seem that there is a flow of events, dependent on what has gone before, interlacing and interconnecting, influencing each other. Maybe!

Well, i'd like to say 'yes' to the agency. I started to imagine going downstairs and hitting the drum and saying there was agency in that sound but, i suppose that was more flow of events, wasn't it? The idea of hitting the drum arose as a mental image and was latched on to and ran with as an idea that 'i' had! Damn...

Pasta and pesto sauce was 'chosen' for tea tonight dependent on those things having been introduced in the past. They arose in relation to being late in, being tired, wanting a quick cook tea..all there already, waiting to arise when the conditons were ripe.

A flow of mental events. Thirst is arising along with images of heading down the stairs. Redbush tea is already there followed by an idea that 'i can have agency!' This leads to thoughts of getting any kind f drink that would never normally be taken, thereby proving agency!!! But there was none. Only a flow of mental events!!!! Aggghhhh!

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Aragon
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Re: Stickman requests a guide

Postby Aragon » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:09 pm

Hi Darren!
Aggghhhh!
;-)

Okay, let's try this.....

Sit quietly and be aware of the point where (thought 'says') the foot meets the floor. Notice what is there.
- Can you find a 'foot'
- Can you find a 'floor'
- Can you find 'contact'?
- How does 'foot' arise?
- When does 'foot' become 'my foot'?
- When does 'my foot become 'my foot is cold'?
- Can you find an inside and an outside to 'foot'?

Speak soon,

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Stickman
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Re: Stickman requests a guide

Postby Stickman » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:52 pm

Touch/feeling, mental image of, and thought label; 'foot.'
The idea 'foot' keeps arising. Touch/feeling, thought label.
When i look down; sight, thought label; floor.
'Contact'; touch/feeling.
Foot arises as mental image and thought label.
Becomes 'my foot' when the 'whole' senses the connection with foot. Or when the idea, 'my foot' arises. 'My foot is cold' from the idea of ownership or from the touch feeling then thought story and label.
Inside 'oo', outside; 'ft.' Ok, joke! No inside or ouside to foot.

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Aragon
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Re: Stickman requests a guide

Postby Aragon » Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:19 pm

Hi Darren,

Nice! What is Darren? How does Darren arise?

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Stickman
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Re: Stickman requests a guide

Postby Stickman » Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:14 pm

Idea. Thought label. Mental image. Touch/feeling. Sight. Thought story.

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Aragon
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Re: Stickman requests a guide

Postby Aragon » Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:54 pm

Hi Darren,

Things seem to have changed. How would you say you are getting on with this...?

Regarding if this has been taken as a belief, or been seen, let me say something about managing expectations. It's not that 'selfing' (thought taking the thought-story as true) no longer occurs, it is more that it can be seen through. In a way, it's the start of the path, not the end.

Let me know where you think you're at,

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Stickman
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Re: Stickman requests a guide

Postby Stickman » Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:47 pm

Hi Aragon, yeah there's been quite a shift but i'm not totally convinced that i haven't just adopted a different set of ideas or beliefs. I'm noticing that when the self and old habits come up there is a seeing of them in a different way. Like they don't carry the same weight. The belief in them isn't there in some way.

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Stickman
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Re: Stickman requests a guide

Postby Stickman » Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:48 pm

Needs time and some more observation or deepening in some way, perhaps.

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Aragon
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Re: Stickman requests a guide

Postby Aragon » Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:23 pm

Hi Darren,

What is observing?
What is deepening?

Maybe try this:

There is an exercise in this post http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... s.html?m=1

Do it here or on paper, doesn't matter. Have a closer look how thought description affects what is happening. Write what you notice...

Aragon
... dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions.... - Nirmala

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Stickman
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Re: Stickman requests a guide

Postby Stickman » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:39 am

Haha! Is that it? 'The page you were looking for on this blog does not exist?' Hahahaaaaaaa! Very appropriate!

Observing. Haha. It's all dismantled, isn't it? Thoughts arising. Deepening....different thought stories arising.


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