The Gate

Hi John,

LU is focused especially on 'seeing thru self"

So sorry, i keep forgetting why i came to LU, it's just that seeing through my 'self' and the experiences of my deepening awareness seem to go hand in hand and sometimes i forget.

So, let us explore choice. When you go into a cafe, pick up the menu what happens? How does choice happen with no Mike in the building?

This is a hard one! but i suppose in the absence of 'Mike' my choice would be based on past experience, but that would be a product of 'mind' so, unless the menu had nice little colour photos :) i really don't know, without my created identity 'Mike', is there still a memory function, i'm treading water here, think you need to throw my a life line

Mike

Hi Mike,

So, let us explore choice. When you go into a cafe, pick up the menu what happens? How does choice happen with no Mike in the building?

This is a hard one! but i suppose in the absence of 'Mike' my choice would be based on past experience, but that would be a product of 'mind' so, unless the menu had nice little colour photos :) i really don't know, without my created identity 'Mike', is there still a memory function, i'm treading water here, think you need to throw my a life line

What we're looking at is how choice happens. in the past, you might have said Mike chooses what to eat. But I'm asking you to watch like a hawk what happens between looking at a menu and ordering food.

There's no right answer Mike - we're just getting clearer on the experience, rather than stories about what happens.

Best wishes,
John

Hi John,

what happens between looking at a menu and ordering food.

I've been working hard on this John, watching very closely every time i have to make a decision, and although i can't notice anything happening, and i am looking hard, i do feel that the act of 'looking' is deepening my awareness, but, as i say the mechanics of 'choice' is not clear to me.

Sorry,

Mike

Hi Mike,

what happens between looking at a menu and ordering food.

I've been working hard on this John, watching very closely every time i have to make a decision, and although i can't notice anything happening, and i am looking hard, i do feel that the act of 'looking' is deepening my awareness, but, as i say the mechanics of 'choice' is not clear to me.

ok. good. let's explore being aware a little more.

Look at the right hand. There it is. There is being aware of it. Ok.

Now, quickly respond, what is aware of the hand.

Some options:

- Mike is aware of the hand.
- Aware of the hand
- something else?

With best wishes,
John

Hi John,

Look at the right hand. There it is. There is being aware of it. Ok.

Now, quickly respond, what is aware of the hand.

There isn't something (or someone) that is aware of the hand, there is awareness and there is a hand.

After thinking about it i wondered what part the mind would play in this but then realized that it wouldn't, until it started to analyze the information received.

Hope that sounds OK!

Mike

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your reply. Though I don't need anything to sound OK :) - just what is the experience. I'm on your side. :D

Look at the right hand. There it is. There is being aware of it. Ok.
Now, quickly respond, what is aware of the hand.

There isn't something (or someone) that is aware of the hand, there is awareness and there is a hand.

After thinking about it i wondered what part the mind would play in this but then realized that it wouldn't, until it started to analyze the information received.

Would you say that you see, without any doubt whatsoever, that "Mike" is a fiction?

If so, what is that like, in everyday experience? What is the most significant change noticed?

If none, just say none. :)

With best wishes,
John

Hi John,

Would you say that you see, without any doubt whatsoever, that "Mike" is a fiction?

Most definitely! I am not Mike, 'Mike' was a convenient label to attach to justify my actions, i acted as others expected Mike would.

what is that like, in everyday experience? What is the most significant change noticed?

I have felt a huge change in my life, not least my deepening awareness, but once again i am confusing my awareness with seeing through 'self' It just feels right that 'mike' was a fiction, it's hard to put into words but, and this may seem a little corny, i feel free, free to complete the journey i set out on many years ago.

It just seems that by freeing myself of this identity i am finally moving towards my goal

Mike

Hi Mike,

Would you say that you see, without any doubt whatsoever, that "Mike" is a fiction?

Most definitely! I am not Mike, 'Mike' was a convenient label to attach to justify my actions, i acted as others expected Mike would.

what is that like, in everyday experience? What is the most significant change noticed?

I have felt a huge change in my life, not least my deepening awareness, but once again i am confusing my awareness with seeing through 'self' It just feels right that 'mike' was a fiction, it's hard to put into words but, and this may seem a little corny, i feel free, free to complete the journey i set out on many years ago.

Marvellous. Now, lets nail this "my" awareness business. :)

With "Mike" not in the building...

Is there anything between you and eating a sandwich?
Is there anything between you and being aware?

Is this my sandwich?
Is this my awareness?

To what could 'my' possibly point to that is a self-existing thing?

It just seems that by freeing myself of this identity i am finally moving towards my goal

Lovely!

Thank you,
John

Hi John,

Is there anything between you and eating a sandwich?

Nothing!

Is there anything between you and being aware?

Nothing!

Is this my sandwich?
Is this my awareness?

No, of course not, this is not my awareness, it just is awareness!

I may be jumping the gun a bit, but i have been feeling for some time now that this 'awareness' (or whatever it is) is me, and everyone else!

Mike

hi Mike,

Is this my sandwich?
Is this my awareness?

No, of course not, this is not my awareness, it just is awareness!

I may be jumping the gun a bit, but i have been feeling for some time now that this 'awareness' (or whatever it is) is me, and everyone else!

That's one for the bar Mike. :D

Share what comes up immediately when you read the following:

- Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there
ever?


- Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.


- How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

Cheers,
John

Hi John,

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there
ever?

No, there isn't a separate 'self', and there never was.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

I believe the illusion of a separate self' starts at a very early age, when our behaviour is conditioned to comply with the norm, we are told that boys play with guns, girls with dolls, we are given labels by parents and friends and try to live up to them.

The illusion itself is the belief that we are in no way connected to others that we are complete, unchanging,separate beings.

I now see it almost as if i have been in a dream for all of my life, it is not a new concept to me, but for some reason it seems to make sense on a different level at the moment. Since i have been attempting to stay 'present in the moment' combined with the view of 'no self' a change has happened, it has now become very clear that 'Mike' was an illusion.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

It as if this all fell into place with my practice of Dzogchen, although the concept was known to me, it was my search for 'rigpa' that led me to this site, (Via Jackson Peterson's youtube teachings) it'a as if i need to experience this fully before i can proceed with my journey.

Thank you,

Mike

Hi Mike,

Thanks for that. A few more to fire up the quattro: :)

- What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?


- Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How
does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.


- Anything to add?

Many thanks!
John

Hi John,

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

It wasn't that i looked, more that as i learned to remain present, i noticed a absence of mind, and how nice that feeling was, then, the less i became involved with 'mind' the deeper my awareness became

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How
does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Intention i understand, i realize the importance of it, and fully accept the effects. Decision is a complete mystery to me, i have watched closely as i make decisions but am still at a loss as to how the process works.

In the absence of mind, i'm unsure of the mechanics of choice, i know that i am responsible for all of my actions and thoughts but unfortunately struggle with how this works

Sorry John, not very productive post,

Mike

Hi Mike,

Just curious - do you think you'll be continuing with the Dzogchen practice? And if so, is it 'Mike' that is carrying on?

Best wishes,
John

Hi Mike,

Another one for you:

How would you describe awareness?

You write, "i know that i am responsible for all of my actions and thoughts but unfortunately struggle with how this works".

In this case, who would be responsible? Mike?

Best wishes!
John