Looking for help :)

[piiineapple]

Question1: When a child who was raised believing in Santa Claus finds out that Santa does not exist, does that child need to see something to understand what happened wrt Santa?

They don't literally need to see something but they need to understand something, at the gut level. Based on their evidence I guess they just need to realise what had occurred all along

Question2: That same child, what does Santa become for him or her?

An funny story or a memory of something once thought of as true, something from their past

[QuantSelfLaFont]

Based on their evidence I guess they just need to realise what had occurred all along.

Question1: Based on the evidence you have, is there a separate self?

something once thought of as true

Question2: If the self is like Santa Claus, what happens to it when we see it does not exist?

[piiineapple]

Based on their evidence I guess they just need to realise what had occurred all along.

Question1: Based on the evidence you have, is there a separate self?

something once thought of as true

Question2: If the self is like Santa Claus, what happens to it when we see it does not exist?

Q1: A separate self. I don't think so, there's only the mind, the body, the sensations, all of them changing. But what's the sense of self? It refers to the whole thing over time? The one stream of awareness or something like that? I'm confused about how to delineate these experiences: the sense of self, and the separate self. How am I aware over time? Why do I feel like a self?

Q2: Nothing, because it doesn't exist, it is just an old thought or something like that?

[QuantSelfLaFont]

there's only the mind, the body, the sensations, all of them changing.

Right. Good noticing.

it is just an old thought

A cherished memory, like Santa Claus.

I'm confused about how to delineate these experiences: the sense of self, and the separate self.

Question: What is the "sense of separate

[QuantSelfLaFont]

Sorry, spellchecker got me.

Question: What is the "sense of separate self?"

[piiineapple]

Sorry, spellchecker got me.

Question: What is the "sense of separate self?"

Ok so that's a thought too but what about my perspective, or the perspective-ness of experience? That isn't a thought, the fact that experience is orientated around a perspective?

[piiineapple]

I think I see what you mean. There's nothing there, there's just experience, whatever's happening. Everything else is just thought/story.
I don't know why but I feel tremendously sad (or: 'there is a tremendous feeling of sadness!) Is that normal?

[QuantSelfLaFont]

There's nothing there, there's just experience, whatever's happening.

Right.

I feel tremendously sad

Ok, emotions arise then pass.

but what about my perspective..

Let's talk through that.

Exercise: Remember the house that you grew up in. Picture the rooms and the furnishings in them. As they appear tell me where the images come from? Where do they go?

[piiineapple]

Exercise: Remember the house that you grew up in. Picture the rooms and the furnishings in them. As they appear tell me where the images come from? Where do they go?

They appear I guess from my memory, but in experience they appear from nowhere and go back to no where

[QuantSelfLaFont]

they appear from nowhere and go back to no where

Good noticing.

Question: What is self?

[piiineapple]

they appear from nowhere and go back to no where

Good noticing.

Question: What is self?

It's just a thought coming from nowhere, sustained through unexamined belief and identification. Doesn't refer to anything real, never did, never can.

[QuantSelfLaFont]

It's just a thought coming from nowhere, sustained through unexamined belief and identification. Doesn't refer to anything real, never did, never can.

Yes indeed.

Question: A you say, the self does not refer to anything real, never did, never can. What comes up when you see that statement written with such clarity? What do you make of it?

[piiineapple]

It's just a thought coming from nowhere, sustained through unexamined belief and identification. Doesn't refer to anything real, never did, never can.

Yes indeed.

Question: A you say, the self does not refer to anything real, never did, never can. What comes up when you see that statement written with such clarity? What do you make of it?

In direct experience, nothing changes, just sensations.
The story that comes up is some doubt or sort of 'Hellloooooo' thoughts, reminders to look at the sense of agency and the first person narrative that arises and know that they have nothing to do with a real separate self. There's still the sense of the doer, but I guess I just look through it now, as not real. It feels a bit confusing, but I just remind myself that these are mental states that arise, that I don't need to 'do' anything to see that I don't exist like that as it's just a thought, so I just pay attention to direct experience again. I also feel somewhat sad at the pointlessness of it all, and something keeps coming up about my mum- somehow there's a sense of loss. I don't really know how to clarify it all, so I just stick with the sensations as that's what I know to be real now.

[QuantSelfLaFont]

There's still the sense of the doer, but I guess I just look through it now, as not real.

Question: Are there any doubts at all about seeing through the illusion of the separate self?

[piiineapple]

There's still the sense of the doer, but I guess I just look through it now, as not real.

Question: Are there any doubts at all about seeing through the illusion of the separate self?

nope!