Hi Smudge

[cotton]

the thought describes an experience which is real

Check this out, is this always true?

experience was real, and describing was a thought that was about that experience

thinking creates a context for experience, thinking is creating the "I"

Can a thought DO anything? How, give examples if so?

no a thought cannot Do anything, in experience there is not anything doing anything

I noticed an experience of cold. Did YOU? or did noticing just happen? Check the temperature NOW, how is noticing happening, I know its hard to describe but try...

noticing just happened and then the words it is cold appeared and then when expressing it here the words 'I noticed' were typed. Right now there is a sensation of something tingling and there is a recognition that previously the word cold has been used to describe this sensation

Is it YOUR attachment, look closer at the ingredients of attachment and list them (DE only).

I did not decide to have the thought

attachment is a thought, it is not my attachment, the ingredients of the word attachment are lots of other words/thoughts

[smudge]

Great. Just keep seeing if sometimes thought description is incorrect ?


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[cotton]

Great. Just keep seeing if sometimes thought description is incorrect ?

thought is neither correct or not correct, there is just is a thought. Some thoughts describe a perspective which is believed when really there is just thinking and sensation

[smudge]

Lets continue looking more deeply at thought:

I am not sure that I can quite go as far as saying that the character called cotton is no more real than batman.

In what way does Cotton exists outside of thought. Does the story even exist outside of thought? Story is time bound and relies on thought -- no thought, no story. What PROOF is there that cotton is in any way more "real" than batman.

You said that direct experience is more difficult at your mothers. What is meant by DE?

The fuller the answer the better right now (DE) so tuning in can happen, thanks

[cotton]

thanks for your perseverance with the process. absence from here since yesterday morning does not mean that there has been absence from looking or trying to communicate back to you, have written lots here and deleted it as none of it makes sense, language use confused, sometimes communicating about an experience, rather than from it….trying to explain how cotton is anymore real than batman is hard indeed. Communicating about experience is hard, as its about something that is not happening now.

ok so lets try one more time

In what way does Cotton exists outside of thought. Does the story even exist outside of thought? Story is time bound and relies on thought -- no thought, no story. What PROOF is there that cotton is in any way more "real" than batman.

cotton does not exist outside of thought, cotton is a storyteller of the experiences, the story can be told again and again , and yes relies on thought to tell that story. No thought no story. But as soon as thought comes in there can be another story.


The story of cotton is more real than batman because the story is about things that are real, not fictional. The story of cotton experiences real things like the sun on the face, batman does not. The story of cotton right now experiences tears moist running down the face, the storyteller experiences emotions. Batman only has drawn tears, there is no water in those tears. Proof of existence is the elements.

You said that direct experience is more difficult at your mothers. What is meant by DE?

do you think that there is misunderstanding on DE? am wondering that too. When I use DE here it means experiences that are conscious or that can be talked about, but only sometimes is there an awareness, or observing of that, that can be communicated here. At my mothers there was not much awareness or observing of the workings of the cotton mind. Maybe it would be clearer to say that there was little direct experience happening.

thanks for reading this…and your patience!!
reading this back it looks like a lot of black lines dancing around that may or may not convey the experience

xxx

[cotton]

NB
to describe direct experience requires a storyteller, but then using "I' is confusing, because neither of us knows how we are using it.

[cotton]

washing up, one of the many storytellers saying this and that, observed feeling caught in story, moment of dropping and looking at image of ani pachen and another of manjusvara and they look back at this energy of life thats abiding right now, like looking in a mirror that mirrors endlessly

imagination …where does imagination come in?

[smudge]

The story of cotton is more real than batman because the story is about things that are real, not fictional. The story of cotton experiences real things like the sun on the face, batman does not. The story of cotton right now experiences tears moist running down the face, the storyteller experiences emotions. Batman only has drawn tears, there is no water in those tears. Proof of existence is the elements.

Story is story regardless weather it is 'about' something 'real' or not. A fictional book about Brighton makes Brighton no more real that a story that smudge lives there. Story is story is story. Is this true?
Is cotton always a main character in a story regardless of real or unreal?

imagination …where does imagination come in?

STORY. Story is great, as long as it isn't mistaken for direct experience. Don't misunderstand here, DE of thought is DE of though (ideas/imagination). In the thought only the thought. This is the pith of getting this. I is never anything other than thought! NEVER.

to describe direct experience requires a storyteller, but then using "I' is confusing, because neither of us knows how we are using it.

so for now use better words to describe DE as "I" is inaccurate.

cotton is a storyteller of the experiences, the story can be told again and again , and yes relies on thought to tell that story.

There isn't a storyteller and a thought. There is only thought. Is this true?

A story for you by Alan Watts! as a treat for looking so hard ;-)
"There was a young man who said:
'though it seems that I know that I know,
What I would like to see, is the I that knows me,
When I know, that I know, that I now."

[cotton]

tried emailing a few times today and it crashed and I lost the words….so lets try again (will copy as we go from now on…if memory remembers)

went for a walk, there was just walking, a momentum moving through, thinking labelled an I that was walking, and
I laughed at the ridiculous commentary as if 'I' needed to know that I was walking

There isn't a storyteller and a thought. There is only thought. Is this true?

yes

I is never anything other than thought! NEVER

yes this is seen

STORY. Story is great, as long as it isn't mistaken for direct experience.

Story is story is story. Is this true?
Is cotton always a main character in a story regardless of real or unreal?

what about if sometimes story is seen as direct experience and sometimes it is seen as it is, just thought?
story is just story, and yes cotton is the main character even when she invents others to join her. saw today how thought entertains and embellishes creating these stories.

Lying in the bath later there was no story, pleasant feelings of stillness and expansiveness followed by unpleasant dark and empty, followed by neutral feelings……

[cotton]

experiences today suggest that there can be awareness of whats happening but not anything making that awareness happening….this feels important….will see if this continues

is this where choice can come in? the directionality of the mind to create the conditions for things to arise but that one does not make anything happen?

[smudge]

Drop trying to fit it together and just look and report back from pure DE and then just let the magic happen..

experiences today suggest that there can be awareness of whats happening but not anything making that awareness happening….this feels important….will see if this continues

Interesting, keep looking, what is awareness in DE?

what about if sometimes story is seen as direct experience and sometimes it is seen as it is, just thought?
story is just story, and yes cotton is the main character even when she invents others to join her. saw today how thought entertains and embellishes creating these stories.

What about it, is this philosophising or DE?
What is thought in DE, where does it come from, what is it, where does it go? describe.

I wonder if the feelings that dance with thought is seeming like something more real than it is? Look at feeling, what is it in DE now? also look at the dance between feeling and thought, just look, like watching flames in a fire dancing and disappearing. Whats that like?

the directionality of the mind to create the conditions for things to arise

What in DE is "The mind", describe.

Like a cake mixture, lets explore the ingredients one by one...feelings, thoughts, awareness.....

[cotton]

thankyou, more tomorrow, xxx

[cotton]

Interesting, keep looking, what is awareness in DE?

awareness notices whats happening as it is happening, it moves around onto objects. Awareness is more than DE, it does not have edges

what about if sometimes story is seen as direct experience and sometimes it is seen as it is, just thought?

What about it, is this philosophising or DE?

oops philosophising

What is thought in DE, where does it come from, what is it, where does it go? describe.

thought is pictures and words , ideas memories emotions plans judgements philosophising, it just arrives, and just goes, does not go anywhere, just evaporates.

I wonder if the feelings that dance with thought is seeming like something more real than it is? Look at feeling, what is it in DE now? also look at the dance between feeling and thought, just look, like watching flames in a fire dancing and disappearing. Whats that like?

feelings come and go the same as thoughts, there is a call and response between them, thinking followed by a feeling followed by a thought, or another feeling, yes like flames in a fire. The character cotton tries to grab the feelings and take them into the story

feelings now in DE….rushing around, darting, words appearing, whole sentences appearing, anticipation, pleasant, unpleasant and neutral feelings one after the other. heaviness downward followed by lifting upwards

[cotton]

just drinking coffee, thoughts about the coffee come and go, not mistaking the thoughts with the experience of drinking the coffee….ah yes

Drop trying to fit it together and just look and report back from pure DE and then just let the magic happen

reading what you said I then sat quietly with a cup of coffee…and could feel something dropping, a feeling and a thought arose in an image of a jigsaw all in pieces in the open box no edges no boundary…..then another image of a completed jigsaw and realised the trying to fit together is cotton

sang part of Tejanandas version of the song…just let go where no mind goes….smiling

just looking and being with the sights and sounds and feel of skin against cloth, things not quite in the same relationship to each other i.e. space between bed and wall changing more fluid, not quite in the 'usual' place, feel something is biting, also fear losing this, but now writing this also opening to this might just come and go.

[smudge]

ot mistaking the thoughts with the experience of drinking the coffee….ah yes

Lovely...simple huh!

opening to this might just come and go.

Brilliant! Yep its biting..

awareness notices whats happening as it is happening, it moves around onto objects. Awareness is more than DE, it does not have edges

Hmmm..So DE has edges does it, lets SEE?....lets look at this duality story and SEE if there are really any edges ever...if there is separation...lets look at mind....So Look with absolute DE only and report back. Do it like its the first time, it may cut through this real not real thing thats going on too..

When you point anywhere in the world you point at appearances. You are distant from what you are looking at and you see things, you see objects. Observe this – direct your attention at things by pointing at them.

For example, I can see the shapes and colours of this room…

of my foot...

...of my knee

of my chest...

In all these instances attention is directed outwards, at objects.

Now point where others see your face.

What do you see? You are now looking inwards – turning the direction of your attention round 180˚ from the objects out there to you the Subject, to the place you (think?) are looking out of. Do you see your face? Do you see anything at all there - any colour or shape, any movement?

Looking in to the place where others see your face, do you find colour or shape here.

What do you find?

Then..Take it further: Point with one index finger outwards at the world, and with your other index finger point inwards towards where you used to think your face was. Describe as fully as you can what the experience is like.