The Gate

I meant today's afternoon!

That's ok Jennie, thank you for letting me know!

Hi Sandra,

In your experience, can you find something that disappears and reappears - an I that is created by thoughts and activated or deactivated by thoughts? Do thoughts have the capacity to create a you?

No, the disappearance/reappearance just happens. Thoughts don't control other thoughts. Thoughts do not have the capacity to create a me. Identification with thoughts/body creates a me.

If you can see that the I only exists as and in thoughts, is the I real? Can the I be experienced - or only a thought at a time about the I?

I have a sense of "I" that is deeper than thoughts, it seems. It is just a sense of "I am here". It is present even when thoughts are not. It is in the background of thoughts.
I cannot find "Jennie" other than in thoughts and identification.

Hi Jennie,

I cannot find "Jennie" other than in thoughts and identification.

Does this mean that you see there is no separate I in reality? If that is the case, how would you explain this realization to a friend? Please share what is going on!

Take care,
Sandra

Hi Sandra,
I am still not finding a separate "I" in reality. Most of my day I still feel "separate" though. It doesn't really feel like much has changed. So, I'm not sure what is going on. My sense of separation comes mostly from habit, I think. And, it takes time to break habit. I am going to spend some more time with the experiencing seer/seeing/seen. I think I get it, but it hasn't fully sunk in or registered all the way...
I think I need to stay with or give more time and attention to the felt sense of unity, or oneness. For instance, right now, I can feel that there is one thing, only. I don't know what it is, but I cannot be separate from it.
I hope I make sense.
Kindly,
Jennie

Hi Jennie,

I hope I make sense.

Yes, you do!

If you can, go for a walk in nature. That's a wonderful way to experience the flow of life.

You can also try to see if with the other senses separation can be experienced. Hearing, for example. Can a hearer be found or only the listening?

Take care,
Sandra

Hi Sandra,
I do experience less separation and more of just the flow of life when I am in nature. :) Should I just keep at the looking for a seer/hearer as I go about my day? Whenever I do that, I am drawn into the experience of seeing/hearing alone and a stillness. It is very soft, very quiet, in the background.

I am aware that all the language I use to refer to myself is not referring to anything in particular that exists in reality. But, it would be hard to communicate without talking about myself that way.

I notice more and more that when thoughts come up, I can just watch them and not identify them as "me". Even if the thoughts are saying "I... I... I..." !
So, it is interesting. I have this feeling of curiosity towards them, like, as if I could ask the thoughts: who is this "I" you are referring to? When that question comes up, the thoughts kind of stop themselves.

Take care,
Jennie

Hi Jennie,

Sorry for the delayed answer!

I do experience less separation and more of just the flow of life when I am in nature. :) Should I just keep at the looking for a seer/hearer as I go about my day? Whenever I do that, I am drawn into the experience of seeing/hearing alone and a stillness. It is very soft, very quiet, in the background.

If you think that is helpful, sure. But we aren't looking for a special experience. All experiences and states came and go.The goal is to see, without a doubt, that in all experiences an I can't be found.

I am aware that all the language I use to refer to myself is not referring to anything in particular that exists in reality. But, it would be hard to communicate without talking about myself that way.

Yes, language is all about concepts, pointers to what can be experienced and even to what can't be experienced :)
Don't worry with using personal pronouns and keep checking if a subject, an "I" can be found "outside" language.

I notice more and more that when thoughts come up, I can just watch them and not identify them as "me". Even if the thoughts are saying "I... I... I..." !
So, it is interesting. I have this feeling of curiosity towards them, like, as if I could ask the thoughts: who is this "I" you are referring to? When that question comes up, the thoughts kind of stop themselves.

Nice! And would you say that when you focus in this moment everything is ok? Or are you still feeling a need to seek for something the future will bring or a need to change the way Jennie is? Do you have any expectations of how seeing no self should be?

Take care,
Sandra

Thank you Sandra. :)

And would you say that when you focus in this moment everything is ok? Or are you still feeling a need to seek for something the future will bring or a need to change the way Jennie is? Do you have any expectations of how seeing no self should be?

Yes, when I focus in this moment, everything is okay. Everything is as it is. This moment is full and complete. It couldn't be any different. Right now, I don't have much concern for the future or for changing Jennie.

I don't think I have any expectations right now for seeing how no self should be. It is a very quiet, subtle experience. In the background. I do find I have an intense sense of fatigue, often, though. When I am looking for a self, often it feel so like it is breaking up an entire paradigm of thought/consciousness and is so disorienting, my "system" has a hard time processing it, and falls into deep sleep.

Also, I have a feeling of "knowing" that I don't know. I don't know what I am. I am okay with not knowing, for now. I know that if I don't even know what I am, I don't know anything at all...

Also, I have a feeling of "knowing" that I don't know. I don't know what I am. I am okay with not knowing, for now. I know that if I don't even know what I am, I don't know anything at all...

So true :)

Thank you for your reply Jennie! Do you think you need more time to look? Do you have doubts - regarding choice and control, for example? Or when looking you're 100% certainty that a separate self cannot be found?

Do you want to keep exploring or do you want to try LU "final" questions and see how that goes?

Take care,
Sandra

Hi Sandra,
I think I need more time to look. I don't know that I have seen clearly, 100% that there is no separate self. I'm not sure where exactly my uncertainty lies, though...

Hi Jennie,

I think I need more time to look.

That's ok and understandable. Although the seeing of what is being pointed to is always available and happening here and now - the only thing needed is one moment of plain looking to what already is the case.
This is something that can't be seen in the past or in the future --> do you see what I'm saying? :)

I'm not sure where exactly my uncertainty lies, though...

Is it thinking that is causing the doubts? When you look, you can see there is no self living life, and when you start thinking uncertainty appears? Jennie, are those thoughts yours, are they personal? Are they pointing to the truth? Between the thinking and the seeing, what feels truer at the moment?

Hi Sandra,

That's ok and understandable. Although the seeing of what is being pointed to is always available and happening here and now - the only thing needed is one moment of plain looking to what already is the case.
This is something that can't be seen in the past or in the future --> do you see what I'm saying? :)

Yes, I see this. Because the past and future only exist in the mind.

Is it thinking that is causing the doubts? When you look, you can see there is no self living life, and when you start thinking uncertainty appears? Jennie, are those thoughts yours, are they personal? Are they pointing to the truth? Between the thinking and the seeing, what feels truer at the moment?

I guess I still think the thoughts are mine, that they are personal. There is a continuous dialogue that runs in my head... which is "I, I, I," -- "I am tired; I need to do this; I don't get it..." etc. But I see those thoughts don't point to anything in reality. And so, in this moment, what feels truer is the seeing, not the thinking.

Hi Jennie,

Can you please describe this moment? What do you see happening?

What makes you think a separate I exists?
Where is this I? What is this I?

Take care,
Sandra

Hi Sandra,

Can you please describe this moment? What do you see happening?

In this moment, my body is sitting in a chair, my fingers are typing and I am aware that it is not really "my' body or "my" fingers. The body and fingers are like the sounds in the room. Things to feel and sense. This body moves just the same as how wind moves. It just does. A "Jennie" is not needed. Everything is happening on its own. There is an inseparable totality to what is happening. It is one movement. Things appear and disappear, and there is less distinction between what is "me" and "not me".
For instance, if I am aware of a sound in another room, am I there? It is starting to feel that way to me.

What makes you think a separate I exists?

I am only aware of a certain set of body sensations/thoughts ("mine"). I feel like awareness is connected to "my" body. My body is the vehicle through which I perceive, sense, think, move, act. I am not thinking someone else's thoughts or feeling their feelings, for instance. I am not able to do that.

Where is this I? What is this I?

Not sure. Right now, to me, this I is what hears, what sees, what perceives. I don't know where it is. I don't know where hearing originates, for instance. I look back to see and it is a sense of "nowhere."

Thanks, Sandra. :)
Have a good day!
Jennie