The Gate

Nice observation. What about choice or decisions? Is there a self that chooses? Is there a self that decides? Mb

Looking with direct experience, When I do something after making the decision to do it I cant find the doer or the chooser.
Yet I am arguing vehemently that this does not make sense, how can something that I have chosen to do and then happens be free of a fixed me.
Then I see that the decision to say "make a cup of tea" is conditional on me being thirsty so it was the thirst that triggered the desire to make the tea, I can then see that me is thinking it is in control again (which is yet another thought process arising)

Great! Looking good.

More later with better connectivity

No can't find a chooser or decider

OK I want to ask you to keep looking here, say at things more loaded than making tea.
Good productive ideas you have had, good funny jokes you have cracked, good bits of creative design at work or at home domestic problem solving, smashing solutions to problems especially those "EureKa! moments". Did any of that actually come from Sangharaja?
Mb

Nope
Can't have I find ownership of ideas thoughts purely as what they are
Arising out of nothing
I won a lot of races as a kid lot of pride as part of
The British team
But all those thoughts of pride I won approval etc
And gave me a sense of worth
There was never an I or me to own them

Also success working with young people aupporting them with family issues
Low confidence anger managment
There was help and support but no me or I
There is quite a lot of emotions connected with these
events but they too are just are what they are
I feel a lot freer of these type of events
Although positive they have defined me
And are limiting

Lovely! Especially the athletics achievements which I had intended to revisit. How do you now see the statement: 'there is no self and never has been a self'' ? Do you agree with it? Mb

How do you now see the statement: 'there is no self and never has been a self'' ? Do you agree with it? Mb

I agree
for a moment there was a strong controlling voice identifying with a fixed self.
not wanting negative emotion that I have been experiencing.
Eventually saw through that and it has now less power
so, Now I agree.
Lovely again feeling expansive and grounded,

Mmm. Is there a self that is in control of anything? Just look in direct experience. Mb

No there is no self doing the controlling
It's a label for doing things , making things happen
There is doing to gain an outcome
There is steering a car, carefully reversing the car etc, it's all control
A doing
So no there is no self or ever been controlling
just control

I am now back to a proper keyboard and quote fuction and want to revisit this:

for a moment there was a strong controlling voice identifying with a fixed self.
not wanting negative emotion that I have been experiencing.
Eventually saw through that and it has now less power
so, Now I agree.
Lovely again feeling expansive and grounded,

In Direct Experience 'what' or 'who' was; "...not wanting..."?

"Eventually..."? How long did that 'take' in D.E.?

So 'it' now; "...has less power..."?

Does that mean 'it' still has SOME power? Just look and tell me from your DE now.

More from me soonish

Mb

No there is no self doing the controlling
It's a label for doing things , making things happen
There is doing to gain an outcome
There is steering a car, carefully reversing the car etc, it's all control
A doing
So no there is no self or ever been controlling
just control

I have some questions about the above which might tidy this up a bit for me.
Before asking them I will say that in the light of your second post of September 12th at 8:01pm below, you are still looking good:

Also success working with young people supporting them with family issues
Low confidence anger managment
There was help and support but no me or I
There is quite a lot of emotions connected with these
events but they too are just are what they are
I feel a lot freer of these type of events
Although positive they have defined me
And are limiting

Semantics can really matter with this stuff, but I want to side step the peculiar semantics of the word 'control' viz a viz cars by going about it this way:

With 100% honesty would it be true for you to say that In your Direct Experience;
'Decisions are made but there is no decider'?
'Choices are made but there is no chooser'?
'The car is controlled but there is no controller'?
Mb

With 100% honesty would it be true for you to say that In your Direct Experience;
'Decisions are made but there is no decider'?
'Choices are made but there is no chooser'?
'The car is controlled but there is no controller'?

Absolutely!