Third time is the charm!

[matumba]

Hi Xain,

Was there an 'I' that came to LU? Or is that just a thought / an idea?
Has there been a 'you' searching or responsible for anything . . . ever?

Purely semantics describing what I felt like before - no I, no me, no you. And there was really no "I" that felt like that before either :)

Can you see that answers may come . . . but they are just thoughts and ideas. No 'real' separate self or person to be found. Not really 'wrong' or 'right' but simply the mind doing it's thing :-)

Yes - what may seem like an answer may show up, "I" may even think its an answer briefly, but its just a thought, idea, concept, judgement, whatever.
I'm probably honeymooning here, but there are no questions or answers (concerning "me")at this time, there is just whatever is going on.
Thanks,
John

[Xain]

Great stuff, John!
I will pass our conversation over to the other guides to have a look at.
I will write back again shortly.

Xain ♥

[Xain]

A few questions:

This person/body is responsible for a bunch of stuff in life, but it seems to be doing pretty well without the previous identity!

Can you explain a little more about what you mean here?

Xain ♥

[matumba]

Hi Xain,

This person/body is responsible for a bunch of stuff in life, but it seems to be doing pretty well without the previous identity!
Can you explain a little more about what you mean here?

Sure! What I mean is that whatever this body mind organism is doing at any given time is what it is supposed to be doing without any interference or input from what was previously thought to be "me".
does that make sense?
Thanks,
John

[Xain]

Sure! What I mean is that whatever this body mind organism is doing at any given time is what it is supposed to be doing without any interference or input from what was previously thought to be "me".

It does, but perhaps a little more exploration is needed here.

So there is a body/mind organism that is 'here' but it is not 'you' -Yes?
This body/mind organism is different and separate from the other body/mind organisms.

If we take a simple sense for example 'Seeing' - Are you saying that 'you' don't see, but the body/mind organism 'sees'? It performs that function and not 'you'.

Xain ♥

[matumba]

Hi Xain,

So there is a body/mind organism that is 'here' but it is not 'you' -Yes?

yes, there is something here that is functioning the way it is.

This was not a question, but maybe there is something "I" am missing because the statement didn't ring true for some reason:

This body/mind organism is different and separate from the other body/mind organisms.

How do "I" know that? How could "I" know that? That The thought (of separation) is there, but when looking "I" cannot say truthfully that this BMO is different/separate from anything.

... but perhaps a little more exploration is needed here.

This is one area being observed now... the experience doesn't indicate separation, but there is no omniscience or anything like that. "I" suppose it is not even really being observed - its just there when not absorbed in thought. Could you tell me what in your experience led you to make that statement? Probably should be explored further.

If we take a simple sense for example 'Seeing' - Are you saying that 'you' don't see, but the body/mind organism 'sees'? It performs that function and not 'you'.

Any of the senses work without interference or input from "me".
Thanks,
John

[matumba]

Hi Xain,
Been looking at this a lot today

This body/mind organism is different and separate from the other body/mind organisms.

is the BMO reference to the physical body being separate from other physical bodies? Like, I can feel the pressure on the chair "I" am sitting on, but not on the chair my friend is sitting on? Physical sensations specific to this particular BMO. I do get that - maybe "I" am reading too much into it.
Thanks,
John

[Xain]

Like, I can feel the pressure on the chair "I" am sitting on, but not on the chair my friend is sitting on?

You may need to look into this more deeply

Can you feel the pressure on the chair you are sitting on?
Close your eyes. Do you feel 'a chair'. Or is there just a sensation?

Are there two things to the experience? The 'chair' and the 'body/mind organism' that is doing the feeling?

What is 'my experience' exactly?
What is personal about the experience that is currently appearing?
What is having this experience?

Xain ♥

[matumba]

Hi Xain,

You may need to look into this more deeply

I may be looking into it too deeply.

Can you feel the pressure on the chair you are sitting on?
Close your eyes. Do you feel 'a chair'. Or is there just a sensation?

There is the sensation of what has been referred to as pressure since memory.

Are there two things to the experience? The 'chair' and the 'body/mind organism' that is doing the feeling?

There is pressure.

What is 'my experience' exactly?

No idea - only assumption.
But "I" spent a lot of time looking and trying to figure out how this can be:

This body/mind organism is different and separate from the other body/mind organisms.

as stated. So how can that be? Trying to look and examine how you came up with this statement as it doesn't seem to jibe with my experience. The only thing that came up was the assumption that the statement must have been indicitive of "your" experience, so something is trying to determine how it is so (the assumption would be it is the problem solving brain/mind).

What is personal about the experience that is currently appearing?

Nothing seems personal - There is conditioning to realize why the experience of separation must be true but doesn't seem to be.
It is like when I was first told "There is no you" and then believed it, but it didn't hit home until quite a while after I believed. But when told "The BMO is different and separate from other BMOs" it is not believed. (Semantics aside when referring to "I") So trying to mesh the statement with the experience and its like trying to put a round peg in a square hole!
Don't know if this conveys what is going on or not - Who is there to be separate?
Thanks,
John

[Xain]

I'm a little confused as to how to continue, so it may be best just to clarify things.
You have started to use a new term 'Body/Mind Organism', BMO.
I have heard of the phrase, but I need to know how it relates to our conversation and why you felt the need to bring this new term up.

So there is a body/mind organism that is 'here' but it is not 'you' -Yes?
Yes, there is something here that is functioning the way it is.

There is something 'here' might be a fair comment. It is the further description that makes it tricky for me.

But you mentioned 'Body/Mind Organism'.
What is it separate from?
Is there one 'Body/Mind Organism' here which is separate and different to other 'Body/Mind Organisms'?

Examining experience right now.
What is the distance from the 'Body/Mind Organism' that is 'here', to the computer screen that is 'there'?

Now examine it in another way.
Examining experience right now.
What is the distance from the 'you' to the computer screen?

Xain ♥

[matumba]

Hi Xain,
Excited to see us both online at the same time! Will post on your comments ASAP.
John

[matumba]

I'm a little confused as to how to continue, so it may be best just to clarify things.

A lot of confusion on my end too!

You have started to use a new term 'Body/Mind Organism', BMO.
I have heard of the phrase, but I need to know how it relates to our conversation and why you felt the need to bring this new term up.

Conversationally used in reference to this physical body called John. It just came out while typing and used as an identifier to eliminate “I”. In hindsight it looks like a poor reference.

So there is a body/mind organism that is 'here' but it is not 'you' -Yes?
Yes, there is something here that is functioning the way it is.
There is something 'here' might be a fair comment. It is the further description that makes it tricky for me.

“Functioning the way it is” that is tricky? Hmm – just something here doing what it does.

But you mentioned 'Body/Mind Organism'.
What is it separate from?

Separate from A fish or desk or phone etc. Separation as far as the bodily senses go.

Is there one 'Body/Mind Organism' here which is separate and different to other 'Body/Mind Organisms'?

That is where my confusion is – that is not my experience, but when I read it in the original post, you had typed it as a statement and not a question. So, I have been examining the experience to see how that could be. And it doesn't seem that way in direct experience. To clarify - in "my" direct experience (at the risk of using "my") there is no separation/difference from others.

Examining experience right now.
What is the distance from the 'Body/Mind Organism' that is 'here', to the computer screen that is 'there'?

The distance and distinction is the keyboard interface where pressure is felt on the fingertips. Also the visual distance from the screen to eyeballs.

Now examine it in another way.
Examining experience right now.
What is the distance from the 'you' to the computer screen?

There is no distance from that thought (of “you”) to the screen.
Thanks,
John

[matumba]

Hi Xain,
Just checking in!
John

[Xain]

This person/body is responsible for a bunch of stuff in life, but it seems to be doing pretty well without the previous identity!

I am still trying to work out what you meant by this phrase.

The way I understand it is this:
You are saying that there is a person/body here right now. That person/body has responsibilities in life.
The person/body has now lost it's previous identity and can now do pretty well.
Is that right?

Surely both the identity and the responsibilities amount to the same thing.
If an identity is lost, what has responsibilities?

Xain ♥

[matumba]

Hi Xain,
Phone tab again so no quote function. There is a being that is flesh and blood and referred to as john which is this person body - which goes to work drives a car raises kids etc. Previously this person body was thought to be controlled by a thought of "I" me. Mine which is referred to as previous identity.
I do not think identity and responsibilities are synonymous. Responsibilities are whatever is going on like driving or eating or reading whereas identity is belief that there is some entity within this body which can somehow in control of completing the responsibilities. Sorry for the phone tab
Thanks
John