Looking for a guide

[EmptySet00]

is there anything more to you than the familiar experience?


What does your question gear toward to? Do you mean a bigger dimension, like letting go when immersed in the wave?

No, I mean the familiar bits of experience that you label as "you". Whether it's feelings of resistance, thoughts and stories about yourself, bodily sensations, or anything else coming up in experience that feels like "you". It sounds like when you are letting go and immersed in the wave, the things you label as "you" aren't happening as much, or at all.

Rosa is made up of lots of ideas.
All these feelings, thoughts, images...
Rosa

Is there anything more to "Rosa" than these constantly- changing ideas, feelings, thoughts, images? Are these things happening to anyone or anything, or are they just happening? Remember- pay attention to whatever is going on in the moment. Thoughts about "you" are just that- thoughts.

Can you find anything other than the constantly- changing stuff coming and going in experience?

ES

[RosaRohlfing]

Hi ES
Ok. Thanks.

The idea of resistance or anxiety leading to a resistance is interesting.
When looking, first there are thought, physical sensation, the whole lot. There is also a background. Paying attention to the background, the ‘whole lot’ disappears like a film image.
The background does also come with physical sensations. It’s more of a constant tone of tension, wooden. I tried to see where it originates from. I could give it a physical place, though, actually there is no physical place, so the whole idea of body falls apart. So, what does sense experience mean, when receptors receive a signal and information gets processed via complex brain pathways (at least thats what I’ve learned) and actually perception of original stimuli is not body based.
The background sensation still present.
Its an unmovable position, at least at the moment; some kind of survival strategy. A hiding place. There are all sorts of ideas what this is all about. All kinds of ideas of a’me’, and why life is the way it is, because of that. I could call this the basic believe about myself in a nutshell.
Lets have a closer look. Physical sensation of this basic story, is another story as noticed earlier.
Although, that takes a bit more looking, as the experience was a bit too big.
A very slow wave moving up the body. Feeling content of the unmovable position becomes more noticeable. Wave moving down, a pull, tension is being released. Waves carry on. When waves are noticed, there is something leaning back, letting it happen. Its life taking over, letting go.
….
The nutshell story is in flow, presenting itself as an image that becomes less and less recognisable.
There is a settling, body based, I’d say kidney, diaphragm. When examined closer, kidney and diaphragm are just images, ideas, the movement vector points towards somewhere / nowhere.
The nutshell story is/ was a film repeatedly played ingraining a sense of now questionable reality.
Is there a ‘me’ in it all? There is some kind of sticky effect, honestly I can’t say yes or no. Something needs to un-stick.

I’ll keep on looking.

Rosa

[EmptySet00]

Rosa,

All kinds of sensations. Are they happening to someone or something?

It doesn't matter what kind of experience, what state of mind or consciousness you're in. You're looking for what's true no matter what.

If this isn't clear with physical sensations, look at other aspects of experience. Sounds. Sights. Thoughts. Can you find the "you" that this is all happening to?

And tell me more about this "background sensation". Describe it as precisely as you can. Is this something that you think of as yourself?

ES

[RosaRohlfing]

Hi ES

Today, spending a bit of time with the background experience.
It’s nothing I could call me. It’s an image, a boundary, images come up in front of it and go again, and the background seems the same, unchanged. Earlier when just staying with the background, it vanished and an open space expanded.
There seems to be the 'art of looking’.
I do notice that the process is not about content, and still, I slither into it, into the story of ‘I’.
Am trying to ‘look’ slightly differently. Rather than staying in a flow of expression, in which I get easily pulled into and identify with, I look as a presence. It’s not a massive shift, it’s just not looking from the perspective of I. If that makes sense. This is an experiment.
Images appear and float, they seem to come closer, although, I don’t know where closer too, eventually disappear.
There is no outer and inner. There is laughter coming from somewhere, lightness and ease. There is happiness, radiating from a place that can’t be localised. The idea of a ‘me’ is suspended. Me is a thought floating by. Waves are expressed spreading out from somewhere. There is no notion to pay particular attention too anything.
Thoughts, images, feelings all seem part of a very slow motion. Nothing stands out.

Rosa

[EmptySet00]

Rosa,

Please read through these statements slowly, multiple times if necessary.

"Rosa" is illusory. All there is of "Rosa", is thoughts about "Rosa".

There never was a "Rosa" other than that. There is not a "Rosa" that comes and goes, other than thoughts about "Rosa" that come and go.

The thought "Rosa" is not an independent doer making your actions happen.

The thought "Rosa" is not what experiences what your senses experience, what thinks your thoughts, what feels your emotions. There is no such entity. It's all just happening, not happening to anyone or anything. A thought can't think, can't sense, can't feel.

Let me know what comes up, especially any thoughts or feelings of resistance.

ES

[RosaRohlfing]

Hi ES

Thanks for your post.
I won't be able to answer the statements today, will write more tomorrow.

Rosa

[RosaRohlfing]

Hi ES

Thanks. Have read statements several times.

Settling into the looking experience. There is an experience of a space, light, the centre of the space is where I am. Body experiences, thoughts. Staying with the spaciousness, all impressions of images, thoughts float like a stream out.
A body gives an impression that there is an inner and outer, although, when looked toward inside, the spaciousness opens up there too. The inside looking is more like a wave bending and looking inside.
Again this sense that ‘Rosa’ is suspended.
This is a sense I have during the day, when at work or in general. There is a space in which I don’t identify with ‘me’ ‘Rosa’. It’s as if the general experiences of feelings, thoughts… have loosened up and something else is shining through the gaps. There is less stickiness.
I’m getting better at investigating experiences without being washed away with them. The looking with presence allows me to look closer. It’s like using a torch, shining a light at the experience and just trusting in the shift.

Lets get to your questions.

So, who/what is Rosa?

"Rosa" is illusory"

There is resistance, or a flow that keeps experiences linked together, making me believe that there is something to identify with.
Paying attention to this flow and listen into it, there is just that, voices but no ‘I’. Am paying more attention to this, a deep breathing in, a shift. Waves are experienced.
Rosa is an idea.
Actually, just noticed, if I apply the questions in my native language, their effect is subtly different.
Rosa is an illusion. There is a deep, endlessly appearing and always shifting tunnel which is a way into a space, no boundaries.

All there is of "Rosa", is thoughts about “Rosa"

Images of Rosa are being released, bouncing off the walls of the tunnel image, flying toward me but through me, there is no me. A physical sense lets me believe that there is something to hold on to. Lets investigate. The moment I stop giving expressions names, they just become part of the spaciousness.

There never was a "Rosa" other than that. There is not a "Rosa" that comes and goes, other than thoughts about "Rosa" that come and go.

First impression, what a relief!
I can see, that all these statement make me aware of the velcro effect, when noticed. We can call it resistance. There is also spaciousness. Looking with spaciousness, the stickiness becomes a flow within space; a flow amongst other movements.
When opening up into the space, a big slow wave flows into the body, flows beyond the body.
Rosa is a name. A label for a flow of all sorts of expressions.
Rosa, I have forgotten what Rosa is. Suddenly a total absence of what Rosa meant. A wave shaking through.

The thought "Rosa" is not an independent doer making your actions happen.

Still in the experience of an understanding of Rosa being absence. The space ‘outside’ is the same as ‘inside’ . Sorry, something just blew ‘my’ mind. The idea what Rosa was is gone. I don’t know what to say other than that!?
…
These statements are very useful. I’ll be continuing with them.

Rosa

[EmptySet00]

Wow, you're really seeing a lot!

Yes, keep working with those statements if they're shaking things loose.

When resistance comes up, look at what it is, other than the label "resistance".

And keep asking yourself, Where is the seer, the hearer, the doer, the thinker? Can you find the Rosa that's doing all that? Where is Rosa, in your experience?

ES

[RosaRohlfing]

Hi ES

Thanks, I'll continue with the statements and your suggestions.
Actually, I'll be away over the weekend and will write on Monday again.

Rosa

[RosaRohlfing]

Hi ES

Over the weekend and also now, the absence of Rosa remains. When asking the question, who is Rosa, it becomes quite strenuous to answer this. I can’t in a relaxed fashion say that Rosa is just a thought. I have to jump from one conclusion to the next and nothing of that is Rosa. Rosa is an idea a construct. As if Rosa never existed. One parameter of perception in this process is ‘ease’. If the idea, Rosa never existed is something perceived with ease, then it’s just part of a flow. At the moment it’s more of a slightly bumpy road.
Also noticed over the weekend a condensed sense of all that was perceived, as if watching a film, flowing in and out.
The gaps in-between experiences appear bigger and I have more of a day to day sense that thought just arises, that ‘I’ don’t make thought happen.

Regarding resistance: This process has obviously an influence on day to day life. A few honesties have been let out of the cupboard in relation to others. Now confronted with an honesty in my experience, which is a space, in which nothing seems familiar other than a sense that ‘I’ don’t want to engage, ‘I’ want to be left alone, ‘I’ don’t want to be pushed.
Yesterday got a strong sense of that space and all I can say is that it’s foggy, disorientating. If I don’t step into a story line it’s an experience like other once.

Now, all things perceived, like the sofa I’m sitting on, the furniture arrangement around me, the garden outside, all is ok, can be perceived with ease. And who is perceiving this? Am settling into this question.
I notice that just a short period of looking at experiences brings up waves and therefore a more fluid sense of appearances.
First a sense that perception happens from where I am. A closer look brings up tension that starts to shift. Am oscillating between tension and wave. Settling more into fluidity and light that comes with the wave. The perceiving happens in the wave, although there is no entity that perceives. Its a process of perceiving.

The thought "Rosa" is not an independent doer making your actions happen.

So, when just looking, there is a flow of expression, an exploring. Who explores? There has a decision been made, that looking is going to happen now, and rather than floating off with a story line, it’s staying also in the flow of perception with awareness.
There was an intention. Who comes up with the intention? Its kind off a shift away. A fundamental shift in understanding that decisions happen without the control centre ‘I’ as the doer. There is simplicity in this, and it needs to be revisited.
This brings up the subject of trust, trusting the process. Letting go, giving up to a life flow. Who is giving up to a life flow? Is there anything else but a life flow? I get this sense of being a mud mount in a river that the water slowly
washes away.

Rosa

[EmptySet00]

I can’t in a relaxed fashion say that Rosa is just a thought.

Why?

If the idea, Rosa never existed is something perceived with ease, then it’s just part of a flow. At the moment it’s more of a slightly bumpy road.

What is this "bumpy road"? What is going on when something feels bumpy?

You've already done some work investigating how perception and decisions happen, and it's starting to get clearer. Keep checking this until it's clear. Can you find the "Rosa" who is perceiving, or the "Rosa" who is deciding? Observe the process of making a decision, and describe in detail what happens.

ES

[RosaRohlfing]

Hi ES

RosaRohlfing wrote:
I can’t in a relaxed fashion say that Rosa is just a thought.

Why?

Of cause, there are times when I can see that Rosa is just a thought. At other times this goes out of focus and needs to be re-seen. It’s a partial seeing.

What is this "bumpy road"? What is going on when something feels bumpy?

There is ease in perceiving the sofa I’m sitting on or the garden or other objects around me. At the same time there is a tension perceived, a control, something cannot relax into just being amongst the objects perceived. It’s a sense of separation, of identity, a restlessness, a search for something that should happen, although I cannot say what that would be.
I could break it down into, there is breathing perceived, looking, sitting, typing. Then a wave is coming up and I get a sense of a connectedness. Separation is not an issue.

Observe the process of making a decision, and describe in detail what happens.

I’ve decided to read an article I have been wanting to read for a long time later today.
The moment I settled for a choice (reading article) the idea combined with an image plunges into something. I could have chosen to look at a flower, it’s the same thing.
There is a memory of the look of the paper. It starts to dive into a channel. Not sure where this channel is. All sorts of other memories come up, from a long time ago, seemingly unrelated to the article or choice, as I have heard of the subject just some years ago.
The crucial moment is the moment ‘I’ separate a choice out of many choices. The multitude of choices are like a flow of possibilities, like thoughts. When looking at this flow, it seems wired to assume that there should be a separate me ‘grabbing’ a choice. As thoughts just flow, come and go, so do choices, as they are also thoughts or images. All I can say is that appearances happen, they move on and then disappear. The content of the appearances is not so important. So, if there is no thinker, there is no doer and no chooser. Choices appear. There seems to be a much bigger interdependence of connectedness if a chooser is ruled out. Possibilities appear and a choice happens? I admit, it’s not quite understood/seen. I’ll revisit this as well.

Rosa

[EmptySet00]

there are times when I can see that Rosa is just a thought. At other times this goes out of focus and needs to be re-seen.

So, at any time, is Rosa anything other than a thought?

It’s a partial seeing.

This isn't a question of whether you "see" at any particular time. It's a matter of belief. Is a real, solid Rosa there or not? What is it, exactly, that comes and goes?

It’s a sense of separation

Next time you feel that "sense of separation", ask what is it. Thoughts? Feelings? Something else?

The crucial moment is the moment ‘I’ separate a choice out of many choices.

What is happening at that moment? Just pay attention as you make various decisions as you go through your day.

ES

[RosaRohlfing]

Hi ES

Thanks.

I will be writing in detail tomorrow.

Rosa

[EmptySet00]

Thanks for letting me know. Looking forward to your answers.

ES