Requesting a guide please

[Freddi]

Hi Jim

Thanks for your honesty and dedication.

what came up was that I am avoiding what I perceive to be unpleasant. This is what frustration is, the mental process fighting what is.

In your experience, would you say that, whether or not there is frustration, fighting WHAT IS, WHAT IS still goes on, undisturbed, or is it changed?

This led to a realization that situations deemed unpleasant by the mental conditioning are really good opportunities to watch, allow, and then be with what is because the mental/physical response is easier to see.

Does ‘being with WHAT IS’ come and go? Look in your direct experience, not in your thoughts. Can you ever not ‘be with WHAT IS’, even if your thinking says otherwise?

Warm wishes

Fred

[jima54]

Hi Fred,

In your experience, would you say that, whether or not there is frustration, fighting WHAT IS, WHAT IS still goes on, undisturbed, or is it changed?

What Is is like a silence. In moments of recognition I am it, I don't really perceive it. It is like a noun, the only noun, that never changes while everything else is a verb that never stops. It is still experienced as seemingly in the background while motion is in the foreground, but that is shifting. Even while sleeping, or half asleep, there is a process of aware differentiation going on between the mental movement and the peace of resting in What Is. Even moments of awareness are being seen as a motion on What Is.

Does ‘being with WHAT IS’ come and go? Look in your direct experience, not in your thoughts. Can you ever not ‘be with WHAT IS’, even if your thinking says otherwise?

It is becoming clearer that What Is is always there, unchanging. The thought activity is becoming less of a distraction and it becomes easier to remove from it and rest in being. I feel like I'm just learning how to ride a bicycle, the excitement is there with the ability of a beginner but I'm still wobbly. This is all thought construction I know and it is getting easier to see it as that. Before there was a certain boundary where initial thoughts were viewed as just that, the fantasy of mind, and my reaction to seeing this was considered valid. Now even the reaction to seeing the fallacy of a particular thought stream is questioned and I am seeing the follow ups as just more of the same. Doing this all the way through until it stops.

Thanks,
Jim

[Freddi]

Hi Jim,

What Is is like a silence. In moments of recognition I am it, I don't really perceive it. It is like a noun, the only noun, that never changes while everything else is a verb that never stops. It is still experienced as seemingly in the background while motion is in the foreground, but that is shifting.

OK a few assumptions to clear up here. 'WHAT IS is like a noun, that never changes while everything else is a verb that never stops’. Really? Take a good look, away from any learned assumption, any hearsay, into what is given in direct experience. What does not change? Is there a what is that changes and a what is that doesn’t? Can you describe the 'what is' that does not change, in direct experience?
For a moment, step out of the thought stream, come back to your breath and observe what is, notice the seeing, the hearing, the touching, the tasting, the buzz and tingle that is happening all around. That’s WHAT IS.
Is ‘what is’ silence? Is ‘what is’ unchanging?

Even while sleeping, or half asleep, there is a process of aware differentiation going on between the mental movement and the peace of resting in What Is.

Is awareness of 'what is' present while in deep sleep? In deep sleep, are you aware of the body? Are you aware of thoughts? Are you aware of all that is happening? Is there anyone there to be aware of anything?

Thanks!

Fred

[jima54]

Hi Fred,

This beingness (I don't know what to call it, all words are useless here, but "it" is in my experience) an experience without a sense of self and then there are all of the forms with the buzz and tingle. "It" has been there ever since I was a small child, it has never changed, it feels the same today as it did then. It is a sense of silent, empty, motionless being that is looking out. That has never changed. That is the noun I am talking about, it isn't doing anything, but it is always present and it is in my experience. I'm sure I've heard the noun/verb before but it occurred to me that it was a good description of what I am now experiencing.

Anyway the above is how it appears to me but you are telling me that it is just another mental illusion. There is no "it", it's another mental projection? It is with me right now whatever it is. I'll sit with this for awhile and look into "It" more deeply.

Also - I mentioned in an earlier post; "Even moments of awareness are being seen as a motion on What Is". Half asleep this can happen. Deep sleep, it does not. I don't any longer consider awareness, or at least awareness with an object, to be any more than another movement on the screen. As to whether there is an awareness without an object, I have no idea, maybe yes maybe no.

Thanks,
Jim

[Freddi]

Hi Jim

This beingness (I don't know what to call it, all words are useless here, but "it" is in my experience) an experience without a sense of self and then there are all of the forms with the buzz and tingle. "It" has been there ever since I was a small child, it has never changed, it feels the same today as it did then. It is a sense of silent, empty, motionless being that is looking out. That has never changed. That is the noun I am talking about, it isn't doing anything, but it is always present and it is in my experience.

How does this ‘It’ manifest in experience? Look around you, watch all the happening of the moment, the moving, the dancing of what is. Notice the shapes, the colours, the sounds, before labels are applied. Now look for that ‘It’ that you say is in your experience. How would you describe it, away from concepts such as ‘emptiness’, ‘awareness’, ‘motionless’, does ‘it’ have a shape, a colour, a size?
Is it a sense of aliveness that seems to be at the intersection of the senses, as it were? What if I tell you that this sense of aliveness is also present at the address previously known as ‘Fred’? Does that make ‘it’ yours? mine?

Anyway the above is how it appears to me but you are telling me that it is just another mental illusion. There is no "it", it's another mental projection? It is with me right now whatever it is. I'll sit with this for awhile and look into "It" more deeply.

Don’t take my word for it, check it for yourself, Jim. Your experience is your only authority. Question everything else. Again, look at what is given in your direct experience, not as a temporary exercise, but as a reflex.
If I ask you whether your keys are in your pocket or not, you can scan your memories about where you last saw them, and try to work out the answer that way, or you can put your hand in your pocket and check. It is that simple.
Take a good, honest look. Can this ‘it’ that you mention be seen? Can it be heard? Can it be touched? Tasted? Can it be experienced at all? Then why is it assumed to be there?

Warm wishes,

Fred

[jima54]

Hi Fred,

I set aside time to sit with the "It" thing and saw a couple of things.

In the process I naturally went back to look at the sense of "Me" with a renewed level of focus and energy. I quickly saw two things: the thoughts of "Me" and, again, a feeling or sensation of beingness which I last called "It". Setting aside "It" for a moment - I dug in on the me thoughts first. I could clearly identify these thoughts and then also began to see not only the mental picture but the physical sensation that was associated with them as well. For example, one version of a me thought is associated with a tightness in my face and a instantaneous mental picture of my face with a stern serious look. Another is associated with a sensation in the back of the next. The thoughts were of different flavors, one seems like a reflection of father another a reflection of mother and another a reflect of myself as a child. The feeling associated with each is a familiar feeling that reminds me of being with them. There were other flavors as well. Later it occurred to me that these thoughts are to some degree actually physically stored in the muscles and that it may take some time before the muscles reprogram as a result of having identified them as vaporous and transient. This already is happening.

After my looking session I felt very different. Last night and this morning a feeling of vacancy is here in place of that knot I spoke of earlier. The knot is gone. Now I'm test driving to see if the realization is real. It appears to be, there is no change. I even try to intentionally bring up a me thought and it seems unnecessary now to even try.

The sense of being that I keep referring to is there, it always has been. My experience lately is that this felt sense of am-ness would combine with a me thought resulting in a convincing "Me" experience. Once the thoughts are separated from the experience of presence it is clear what is going on. This beingness experience is a real experience. I guess that everyone has it but I can't know for sure what others are experiencing. For me all of these terms are interchangeable: beingness, I Am which turns into just Am, presence, What Is, and awareness. Having identified and separated thought out of the equation, this beingness is coming to the forefront. It seems to also be the buzz and the tingle you have mentioned. It is just simple presence with no object, it isn't personal at all, it just is. I can't touch it or see it but it is there. Where? I don't know. I don't know what happens in deep sleep; the tools of perception aren't active, at least for the most part, because when awakening there is a sense of continuity and a feeling that presence was there the whole time. Is this beingness feeling still present in deep sleep? I don't know, does it matter? It used to matter to me as I have a habit of wanting to explain stuff, that habit will likely continue but at least I know what it is, a thought pattern for my own entertainment.

Anyway, I appreciate your focus and steering. The brick wall of your pointing has caused me to keep going back until I was able to gather the energy and honesty to see what I need to see. Seems that some level of both sincerity and energy is needed to do the work of seeing.

Thanks,
Jim

[Freddi]

Hi Jim

Thanks for your post. I love that you are seeing that the sense of aliveness and me thoughts combine to create a convincing ‘me’. That's clarity.
I sense that something is shifting. Am I correct?

Later it occurred to me that these thoughts are to some degree actually physically stored in the muscles and that it may take some time before the muscles reprogram as a result of having identified them as vaporous and transient.

Interesting theory. Is this seen in direct experience? In the direct experience of this moment, the only one we can test, how do you know you even have muscles? Where are this past and this future where thoughts get stored and pop back out of muscles? Is it directly verifiable in your immediate experience, or is it mental projection?
Is this a theory you have heard somewhere? Question it. Don't leave any stone unturned. This is about unlearning, not learning.

Seems that some level of both sincerity and energy is needed to do the work of seeing.

Honesty - yes, 100 %. ‘Energy’ I would question. If what you mean is ‘effort’, I would say that seeing is the opposite of that, it is seeing what is plainly obvious, evident, right in front of our eyes, 100 % of the time.

Let’s move on to the question of control and free will, Jim.

1) Can you choose the moment when ‘you’ fall asleep or ‘you’ wake up? A thought says ‘Jim is getting up’, but in reality what happens?
2) Do you beat your heart, grow your hair or control the breathing?
3) Can you control thoughts? Can you choose which thought to have next? Can you stop a thought halfway through?
4) After you read these words, get up and walk across the room.
Who controls the walking? Can you see a definite ‘you’ that controls that walking? Or is there just walking happening?

Thanks!

Fred

[jima54]

Hi Fred,

I sense that something is shifting. Am I correct?

Yes, there is a shift. Several weeks ago there was a shift, in contrast to now it seems it was more intellectual although still important. Now there is a vacancy where "Me" used to reside. There is a lightness, like some weights have been removed. There is also some doubt that it is real. It has been a couple of days since this condition arose and my doubt is declining. I test for the "Me" feeling by looking again for it's origin and it it not there except as a thought. The familiar Me sensation does revisit but there is a difference in that it is seen only a visitor now and not the prevailing condition. This is seen now as a real difference, not imagined, as though the change came from outside somewhere.

Interesting theory. Is this seen in direct experience? In the direct experience of this moment, the only one we can test, how do you know you even have muscles? Where are this past and this future where thoughts get stored and pop back out of muscles? Is it directly verifiable in your immediate experience, or is it mental projection?
Is this a theory you have heard somewhere? Question it. Don't leave any stone unturned. This is about unlearning, not learning.

What I do know is that the thought matches the sensation. The thought neatly overlays the sensation and they seem to go together with a sense of familiarity. Do I really know about muscles, no. Theories are my hobby I guess, not my reality.

Can you choose the moment when ‘you’ fall asleep or ‘you’ wake up? A thought says ‘Jim is getting up’, but in reality what happens?

At some point the mind/body just awakens, then thought fires up and the game is on. Thought creates a story about the whole process after the fact of awakening. The story says that "Jim" woke up. There's a bunch of garbage after that to try and go back to sleep and recapture the rapture of sleep.

Do you beat your heart, grow your hair or control the breathing?

No. This is clear. It's the same as the weather although more rhythmic and predictable. Watch it happen and marvel.

3) Can you control thoughts? Can you choose which thought to have next? Can you stop a thought halfway through?

If there is no me how can I do this? That is pretty clear now. Thoughts control thoughts. Add a little awareness to the process and it seems like "I" am controlling thought. A thought says "change course", so the next thought follows. That is all.

After you read these words, get up and walk across the room.
Who controls the walking? Can you see a definite ‘you’ that controls that walking? Or is there just walking happening?

Did that, got a drink from the refrigerator. No, there is no definite "Me" that is controlling. There are traces of "Me" still active like I mentioned above. The trace thought is that all of the body mechanism is a miracle of complexity interacting and mobilizing. The sensation is that of a wonderful movement that is part of the rest.

Thanks,
Jim

[Freddi]

Hi Jim,

1)

Now there is a vacancy where "Me" used to reside.

Could you explain your use of the word ‘vacancy’? Was there a ‘me’ and now there isn’t? Has an entity left? Can you be more specific?

There is also some doubt that it is real.

Of course, that is thinking at work. A thought comes in aiming to own, explain away the experience.

2)

What I do know is that the thought matches the sensation.

Look at a thought and observe the ‘corresponding’ sensation, in direct experience. Granted that another thought may pretend to establish a link between the two, is there a real, tangible correlation between them? Or is that correspondance just another thought?
Thoughts can aim to describe what is happening in experience, but how good are they at doing this? Think about last night’s dinner. Remember all its textures, its flavours, its aromas, its digestion. How close is this memory to the actual experience of the dinner?

3)

Thoughts control thoughts.

Is this true, seen in direct experience? How does a thought control another thought? Do they have that power? Take a good look in what is given, here and now, and let me know what you see, not what you think.

4)

The trace thought is that all of the body mechanism is a miracle of complexity interacting and mobilizing. The sensation is that of a wonderful movement that is part of the rest.

Thanks :-)
Would you say that Jim-ness is just a label applied to a portion of the happening of the moment?

5) Look at other apparent decision-making events in day-to-day life. For example, without a separate entity doing the choosing, how are clothes selected in the morning? How are the ingredients picked up from the fridge, etc? Find any example that presents itself and report what you see. How do they unfold?
A thought will say ‘Jim is going to wear a blue shirt today’, but what is actually happening, in direct experience, how is the shirt selected? What factors come into play?

Thanks!

Fred

[jima54]

Hi Fred,

I'm travelling again tomorrow then Sunday is consumed with a family gathering that I'm in charge of catering.

Could you explain your use of the word ‘vacancy’? Was there a ‘me’ and now there isn’t? Has an entity left? Can you be more specific?

There used to be that "knot" I referenced. It was a weight of self absorption that is now missing. The knot was a sort of a low grade anxiety made up of a self consciousness plus a thought image of myself... heavy head, serious, slogging through the challenges of life, on guard, blah, blah ... then that is gone and it feels like something is missing, a bad thing is missing, and an empty space, lightness, is there instead. I check back frequently to recall the old feeling of "Me" and it is largely gone; again a space where you expect to find something but it is gone. I suppose the expectation creates the idea of space.

I said "largely gone", not completely. I sense that there are other more subtle aspects of the "Me" thought still in place. While I am feeling that there has been a major shift away from absorption with a phantom self there are still physical symptoms of tension although they are seen not so much as "Me" but as "what is that?". Maybe another layer of the onion.

I want to answer the rest of your post but it may be a few days as we are travelling all of next week.

Many Thanks,
Jim

[Freddi]

Hi Jim,
Thanks for letting me know about the next few days.
I look forward to the rest of your answers.
Warm wishes
Fred

[jima54]

Hi Fred,

We are back from a whirlwind vacation. With very little time alone it was a good time to just observe events and life as it proceeded. In the past this type of trip would have produced far more stress that it did this time. Some objective validation that perhaps progress has been made.

Would you say that Jim-ness is just a label applied to a portion of the happening of the moment?

Yes I would. I see that Jim-ness has the two components of awareness and the label or the idea of Jim. It is much clearer now the difference between the two whereas they were mixed together before creating the illusion of a real "Me". The label of "Me" kind of sits in the background now but it is there just like everything else at that moment. (I typed the previous sentence after finishing most of the post. Typing it brought something to light. "Me" thinking isn't necessarily going to go away after clarity, but it is seen for what it is, just another part of the living process. This can be confusing, the goal seems to be to make it go away and having it still be present feels like failure. Realization of what it really is, just a thought, and allowing it to takes it's rightful place as just that, only a thought, is what seems correct.)

Look at other apparent decision-making events in day-to-day life. For example, without a separate entity doing the choosing, how are clothes selected in the morning? How are the ingredients picked up from the fridge, etc? Find any example that presents itself and report what you see. How do they unfold?

When picking out my clothes for the day there is a thought "I wore ... yesterday, so today I will wear ... and it is Thursday so I can start dressing down". Then I reach for the items and put them on, very mechanical without any thinking involved. The muscles move without specific commands. The whole process of decision making looks like a series of impulses, thoughts, sensations, and movement. What can possibly be orchestrating every piece of this? Not the "Me" that I originally assumed. Again, there is still a steady state sense of a "Me" thought present during the process but it feels more like a low grade shadow rather than the angst ridden entity that it was before. How to let this last piece of "I" go once and for all? By keeping this "I" thought in focus and continually seeing it's transparency and lack of substance I suppose. This mind is very very stubborn and sticky.

Thanks,
Jim

[Freddi]

Hi Jim
Glad you’re back. In your post, you seem to have missed out my questions 2 and 3. Could you go back to them, please? Again, don't look in your thinking for answers, come to your senses, really scan your immediate, first-hand experience and tell me what you see.

Thanks

Fred

[jima54]

Hi Fred,

Sorry about that, I had them typed out on my editor but forgot to move to the post.

Look at a thought and observe the ‘corresponding’ sensation, in direct experience. Granted that another thought may pretend to establish a link between the two, is there a real, tangible correlation between them? Or is that correspondance just another thought?

I do see that the mental process is constantly creating stories to explain what is happening. I can't directly see the origin of any thought but I do see a basic recurring process: sensation - thought - story. Many times another sensation comes after the thought, there are many variations of this process and it doesn't stop. When a particular sensation and thought occur together many times it is difficult to dismiss that they are somehow related. I have one thought in particular about a specific person. The texture of the thought is basically the same every time and the accompanying sensation is acute and the same every time. That is what happens, I see one precede the other then the mind says they are related. Now, I think maybe they are or maybe not, it doesn't matter so much, the difference is I don't buy into the thoughts as part of what is real like I did before so it quickly passes on to another bunch of thoughts.

Is this true, seen in direct experience? How does a thought control another thought? Do they have that power? Take a good look in what is given, here and now, and let me know what you see, not what you think.

I guess I mean that thought is just another cause and effect pattern like everything else. In my direct experience one thought arises in a progression of non-stop thinking, it is not isolated from every other thought that came before but simply a result of what came before. Frankly, the whole thought process is a big mess most of the time, not much of a pattern at all. Sometimes there is something of a perceived pattern when a little intention is applied and some order gained as a result. When Intention is applied a desire arises to hold or prolong a particular thought, this usually feels like an effort, but it is just another thought/sensation which is part of the pattern at that time. I don't any longer see a "Me" as the driver of the process but I do still have a sense of a steady state, although very light, "Me" still being present.

Thanks,
Jim

[Freddi]

Hi again, Jim

Thanks for your detailed answers. Really enjoying your dedication :-)

1)

I said "largely gone", not completely. I sense that there are other more subtle aspects of the "Me" thought still in place.

When those subtle aspects of the ‘me-thought’ are still present, is there a problem with them? Who or what has a preference for these to go away completely?
Later you write ‘This can be confusing, the goal seems to be to make it go away and having it still be present feels like failure’. Who or what feels failure? What is there to fail or succeed?

2)

The whole process of decision making looks like a series of impulses, thoughts, sensations, and movement. What can possibly be orchestrating every piece of this? Not the "Me" that I originally assumed.

Look at the assumption that says that all this happening needs something to orchestrate it. Again, scan your first-hand experience, come back to your breathing, notice all the vibrant unfolding of Life, the moving, the dancing. Do you see any entity doing it all? Is it all happening by itself? Is the need for a ‘doer’ any more than an assumption which is unsupported by our direct experience? Question it, don’t leave that stone unturned.

3)

The texture of the thought is basically the same every time and the accompanying sensation is acute and the same every time. That is what happens, I see one precede the other then the mind says they are related. Now, I think maybe they are or maybe not

When you check in your immediate experience, and observe thoughts, do you actually see a link between them? Where do thoughts come from and where do they go?

4)

I guess I mean that thought is just another cause and effect pattern like everything else. In my direct experience one thought arises in a progression of non-stop thinking, it is not isolated from every other thought that came before but simply a result of what came before.

Look in direct experience, in what is alive, right here and now. In this moment, is there any more than the current thought? In order to talk about a thought causing another, or being affected by a previous one, we have to invoke memories of thoughts, in other words stories. Is cause and effect any more than one of those stories our minds tell?

Thanks!

Fred