I am legion!

[neeeel]

And the entity that has a body?

[Ann O'Nymous]

...is the mass of flesh and bone!

[neeeel]

...is the mass of flesh and bone!

So the entity is the mass of flesh and bone? And this mass of flesh and bone has a body ( which is a mass of flesh and bone?)

[Ann O'Nymous]

...is the mass of flesh and bone!

So the entity is the mass of flesh and bone? And this mass of flesh and bone has a body ( which is a mass of flesh and bone?)

The entity is the body which is the mass of flesh and bone! It's all one and the same.

[neeeel]

Is the body an entity?

[Ann O'Nymous]

,,,perhaps the easiest thing is to replace has with is!

[Ann O'Nymous]

An entity is something that exists in itself, actually or hypothetically. It need not be of material existence. In particular, abstractions and legal fictions are usually regarded as entities. In general, there is also no presumption that an entity is animate. -WIKIPEDIA

Even so, this may not be the best word. The body is not independent and self-contained. It's all connected.

[neeeel]

An entity usually implies a separate inherent thing, a self even. You used the word. You said specifically, "an entity has a body". It is important that you be honest here. This is a strange thing for someone to say when answering questions about the existence of a self, as it implies an entity, a self, that has, or owns, a body.

I wont be happy till we get to the bottom of this :D

[Ann O'Nymous]

Fair enough. It really was clumsy wording though! What I meant was that there is something that can be seen. I may have been influenced by my Spanish. Entidad can be translated more as unit as in, there are 24 entidades in this tray of Coke.

So, the thing that can be seen is (a better choice than "has") a body. The body is made up of limbs and organs. The limbs and organs are also senses. The combination of body, limbs, organs, senses creates an illusion of something apart from the rest of the world. The self-illusion thus arises.

Re-reading the last few posts, I can see where I have misled you. You are thinking, "Wait! After all this and we go back to a situation where he believes that there is Something that then finds a body to inhabit?!?!" Definitely not. The entity is the body; the thing that some people identify as being me. The thing that can be distinguished from X, my son, Y my daughter and Z my wife. If it is separate, it is only on this superficial understanding that we are all discreet little packages which are cut from different cloth (which, of course, we are not!!!).

Does even the body exist? On one level yes. On another no. Where does the body begin and end? There is no beginning or end to the body. I cannot say where the molecules or subatomic particles stop being me. There is no seam. If we didn't have to use language, there would be little point in arguing for the existence even of a thing, a body, a mass of flesh and bone. It's not things that just are. It all just is!

[neeeel]

Fair enough. It really was clumsy wording though! What I meant was that there is something that can be seen. I may have been influenced by my Spanish. Entidad can be translated more as unit as in, there are 24 entidades in this tray of Coke.

Yes, language doesnt help. I just want to be sure that I have not confused you or led you to think you are looking when you actually havent, and phrases like " an entity has a body" are indicators that not everything is as clear as it could be.

So, the thing that can be seen is (a better choice than "has") a body. The body is made up of limbs and organs. The limbs and organs are also senses. The combination of body, limbs, organs, senses creates an illusion of something apart from the rest of the world. The self-illusion thus arises.

What does an "illusion of something apart from the rest of the world" look like? I mean, do all these things ( body, limbs organs etc) create this illusion? Are they not just body, limbs, organs, senses? Nothing in these things inherently says "you are apart from the rest of the world". So what is it that "creates" the illusion?

Re-reading the last few posts, I can see where I have misled you. You are thinking, "Wait! After all this and we go back to a situation where he believes that there is Something that then finds a body to inhabit?!?!" Definitely not. The entity is the body; the thing that some people identify as being me. The thing that can be distinguished from X, my son, Y my daughter and Z my wife. If it is separate, it is only on this superficial understanding that we are all discreet little packages which are cut from different cloth (which, of course, we are not!!!).

Ok good, this seems quite clear.

Does even the body exist? On one level yes. On another no. Where does the body begin and end? There is no beginning or end to the body. I cannot say where the molecules or subatomic particles stop being me. There is no seam. If we didn't have to use language, there would be little point in arguing for the existence even of a thing, a body, a mass of flesh and bone. It's not things that just are. It all just is!

yes, nice.

[Ann O'Nymous]

What does an "illusion of something apart from the rest of the world" look like? I mean, do all these things ( body, limbs organs etc) create this illusion? Are they not just body, limbs, organs, senses? Nothing in these things inherently says "you are apart from the rest of the world". So what is it that "creates" the illusion?

It is thought that creates the illusion. Thought working in conjunction with everything else. Just as thought has started to look at itself now and found that there is no Me. I can ask myself, "Why did thought decide to look at itself?" but I cannot answer this question without thinking. So I notice the question come up and notice how it goes away.

[neeeel]

Ok , thanks. I will get some other guides to look at your answers.

[neeeel]

Hi, I have had some guides look at your answers, and they are happy that you are clear on things. Whats the next step? If you are interested, there are facebook groups you can join for support, or just discussion, or further investigation, if that is your thing. If you were interested in guiding, then you would also be welcome to help with that( you would also need facebook for that, as there are groups for co-ordinating guides etc).
So if you are interested in any of this, please PM me your facebook name, and I will get you added.
thanks
neil