The Gate

Today is difficult to remove myself from the thoughts. Will post again shortly.

Instead of trying to remove "yourself" from thoughts, seeing them as your enemy, how about noting them down, "the thought that says this", "the thought that says that' and seeing them for what they are?

Fred

It took a while to get in teh groove today, but I did as you said and just watched the thoughts and took note of where the references for a me were. Every now and then I'd get caught up in them and believe the story, then I'd come to again.

I guess the thoughts quietened for a while to start searching for the hearer, and then when I couldn't find one, the seer... then the thinker. But... I got no definitive answer... I couldn't find one, but there must be something in the background... a place I haven't checked...

Hi Brant
On re-reading our thread, I am seeing quite a bit of clarity, but also doubts. I wonder if the reason for this is that there are still expectations lurking around?

You've read all sorts of accounts and listened to "others" about how this 'should be'.
Can what is happening be anything other that what IT IS?
And is there anything really other than 'this'? Can there be?
Isn't anything more than what is happening right here and now just a thought or a description or a concept?
We have just completed a list of what this is NOT on our homepage. I'll list them here. These can only get in the way and if seen, the possibility of just dropping them could happen.


Liberation Unleashed is not ...
Throughout the years our many guides have discovered that one of the major obstacles to the direct, clear seeing of what is already magnificently the case is a thick layer of expectations and narrative about a self’s journey towards enlightenment, built up by years and years of seeking. Getting these expectations out in the open and out of the way is an important first step. Below is a list explaining what the LU process is not:

This is not a way to escape your daily life.
This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.
This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.
This is not a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.
This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.
This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts.
This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.
This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, it not magical or mystical.
This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.
This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.
This is not a solution to problems in relationships.
This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.
This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, getting rid of thoughts.
This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
This is not about convincing you of anything.
This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.
This is not a self improvement program.

Contemplate each of these one by one, let them permeate through and let me know what comes up, maybe just sensations in the body? Comment on them, tell me what you could still be holding onto.

Fred

Still here. I want to look properly at the listed expectations. I think there's something in the belief about "what I will lose" "how much of me will be lost"... I need to look at this also.

OK Brant, take your time with this list. It is important to clear up an expectation lurking around.

Fred

Still here, still looking. I'll type something up tomorrow to address the expectations. But I know I do have some. Just want to flesh it out.

Have been thinking about whether I know for sure that the content of thought is not real. Yes, I can close my eyes and imagine a blue roof, then open them and see a white roof - but who or what's to say which sensation is more real than the other? Why is vision any more or less real than the content of a thought?

Hi Brant

Come back to me about your expectations, as requested, then we'll discuss the reliability of your eyesight.

Fred

This is not a way to escape your daily life.

Agree. This seems obvious on all fronts.

This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.

Nothing gained agree. I do have an expectation of becoming something different. A belief change I expect will have a behavioural impact. Like believing you have 6 months to live would change the way you behave. It might sound silly, but I believe this will make me more 'chill' - I will be less inclined to take insult to perceived attacks on the imaginary self.

This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.

Agree. Just a belief change.

This is not a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.

I honestly have no idea how the brain will react to seeing the 'I' belief to be false. I also don't understand how it can't see it already, and what exactly gets out of the way for it to see it. Thought must get out of the way for thought to see truth? I'm sure if I proof read this it will sound silly so I won't proof read it.

This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.

Agree. It's about losing an assumed wrong belief. Turning and assumed true into a definite false.

This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts.

Good to get confirmation actually. I tried that one for long enough!

This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.

Agree.

This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, it not magical or mystical.

Agree.

This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.

Of course not eternal peace and happiness, but I expect perhaps wrongly that I'd be happier having seeing that there is no 'me' to worry about constantly than if I had not. SO I have an expectation that happiness will be more prevalent after seeing the truth.

This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.

I expect this is of course true. I also expect that I wouldn't become consumed by these intense feelings like a self has a habit of doing. The addition of 'why me' to an intense low, or the subtraction of 'this isn't me' from an intense high kind of caps things. I expect an uncapping.

This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.

I'll come back to this one. I want to look further at it without having risk this session time out.

This is not a solution to problems in relationships.

I have no expectations here. Never really thought about it.

This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.

Not looking for that.

This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, getting rid of thoughts.

Impossible to stop thoughts.

This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.

I've noticed this also. The story can unfold without attachment to it - same as watching a story about a cartoon. I've only held onto this temporarily though.

This is not about convincing you of anything.

ok.

This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.

A little bit disappointed there will be no elf with a pot of gold but I'll get over it.

This is not a self improvement program.

Another interesting one here I want to look further at. It makes sense logically.

This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.

If there is no self, then no self can be gotten rid of. Ego, as I understand the word is the dysfunctional thought process that occurs when a self is believed in... or rather the story about the character is believed to be the experiencer. So in some regard, I expect ego to operate differently. The character will remain but there will be no belief in place which results in further thoughts pointing to a me that doesn't exist. Confusing!

This is not a self improvement program.

no self to improve.

Hi Brant,
Thanks for the detailed responses!

First, about this:

Why is vision any more or less real than the content of a thought?

OK next time you cross a busy junction, do it with your eyes covered and ear plugs and TRUST your thoughts. Observe what happens in Direct Experience and report (or get a friend to report). Only joking ;-)
Do you still trust your thoughts more than your senses?

Turning an assumed true into a definite false.

Yep. That’s it. Once seen, it is definite. Out with all assumptions.

I have an expectation that happiness will be more prevalent after seeing the truth

Who or what would “get” more prevalent happiness? The character Brant, which we have seen to be unreal? Happiness does happen, and so does unhappiness, sunny days and rainy days, highs and lows, hot and cold, left and right, and all this happens for no one.

I also expect that I wouldn't become consumed by these intense feelings like a self has a habit of doing.

Who or what becomes consumed? The leprechaun that was riding the unicorn in one of your previous posts?
Conditioned thinking does continue for a while, after the illusion of self has been seen, a bit like an engine that, once switched off, continues running for a bit.

no self to improve

Bingo. This is about seeing that there never was/is/will be any Brant to improve, get happier, get consumed or anything. No Brant to become enlightened or stay unenlightened.

Ego, as I understand the word is the dysfunctional thought process that occurs when a self is believed in... or rather the story about the character is believed to be the experiencer. So in some regard, I expect ego to operate differently. The character will remain but there will be no belief in place which results in further thoughts pointing to a me that doesn't exist.

This is a perfect description of the habitual thinking that persists for a while after seeing though the illusion of self. Even when seen to be a fiction, the character returns, only now it is no longer believed in. The seeing of the illusion is only the first in a line of dominoes, all fall away one by one (some faster than others).

You are actually seeing WHAT IS, in all its beautiful simplicity, here and now.

Now is as good a time as any to drop conditioned expectations and admit that you are already seeing WHAT IS. How about it?

Fred

OK next time you cross a busy junction, do it with your eyes covered and ear plugs and TRUST your thoughts. Observe what happens in Direct Experience and report (or get a friend to report). Only joking ;-)
Do you still trust your thoughts more than your senses?

I like that answer. I guess I'm getting too conceptual with that anyway.

Now is as good a time as any to drop conditioned expectations and admit that you are already seeing WHAT IS. How about it?

Of course I can say 'yep. done. All expectations out the window' but it's more a question of vigilance in watching when I'm believing the thoughts. This also raises the question as to what believes which thoughts - who or what notices thoughts and decides to switch between focussing on vision or hearing etc. After I submit this I'm going to spend a lot of time trying to just see things unfold and pickup when I'm 'trying' or 'looking for an outcome'.

Aside from 'watching' my way into seeing truth - are there any other angles you can think of that I could strike at this?

Hi Brant,

This also raises the question as to what believes which thoughts - who or what notices thoughts and decides to switch between focussing on vision or hearing etc.

These are good questions to ask yourself. Who or what believes thoughts? Who or what notices them? Can you look deeply into these questions, stay rooted in your present experience, and tell me what you find there?

As thoughts come up, can you think them? Are you the ‘thinker’, can you think and choose the next thought? Tell me what you see in your present experience.

Aside from 'watching' my way into seeing truth - are there any other angles you can think of that I could strike at this?

There is no “way” into liberation, and, worse, no one who could ‘strike’ and ‘get it’. Do you still believe that this process is a way to improve Brant’s life?

Warm wishes,

Fred