Page 4 of 16

Re: Please Ilona or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:51 am
by ShamelessLikeTheSun
A thought cant wake up no. thoughts about waking up but the thought isnt an entity..only data/information coming and going. so this searching doesnt belong to anyone then either. if theres no i theres no one searching. looking right now in direct experience being here with my mum..what creates most of her suffering isnt the cancer its thoughts about what it all means about who she is and what will happen. It feels like i want to see so i can point it out for her but thats more thought too. one second of clear looking is all thats needed..what could be in the way..i dont know..i dont feel fear..must be an expectation that its somehow differt to what is right now..maybe if the sense of i went away..or something but right now thats ok to be..its obvious that the looking is free and expansive and theres nothing here thats a problem without a self. in one of the LU videos on fear it says fear of becoming an unmotivated zombie..funny cos here thats how life feels mostly already..like theres been nothing much but this seeking and its consumed most of the past 8-10 years..like nothing seemed to matter..or maybe liberation would be some kind of relief from the pressure of identification. still looking X must not b looking just thinking tho! x

Re: Please Ilona or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:54 am
by Ilona
You are doing great! Remember, all that comes up is part of process.

So have a look now, is there an I that can cross a gate?
Is there a gate to cross?

What is it that is seeking and seeking for what exactly?

Much love.

Re: Please Ilona or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:36 am
by ShamelessLikeTheSun
Waking up this morning..its like thoughts kick in all over again..the story of me..look in the mirror and theres identification with a face..how its looking tired & older today..heaviness at another day of trying to get life right..almost gave mum the wrong medicine..burning sensation that I made a mistake & feeling fucked off of this seeming endless situation..mums illness..the loop that feels like my life.. coffee,cigarrette, coughing, its all thoughts after the happening isnt it. Life smoking, making coffee, thoughts coming about what is and thoughts about a me. I should stop smoking-I should do better..I I. I the superhero that can & should save the day, save myself & save the world or the villan..selfish or just indifferent to it! sometimes thats what shows up
Remember its all part of the process
reading that.. that brings lightness & an okayness.Ah! relief. ok all thats coming up is part of the process..all the thoughts are just arising without an owner..a thought pops up saying I must remember that!
is there an I that can cross a gate? is there a gate to cross? what is it that is seeking and seeking for what exactly?
The I cant cross anything..its a thought. There is no gate theres just what is. The I doesnt even appear in what is..it never appears & can never appear. Only in thought. So what is seeking? and seeking for what exactly? Misidentification..a mistaken idea that the thought I is something more than that when it has no reality in whats appearing and therefore cannot seek or find anything in the first place. Gotta keep looking and looking. The looking isnt thorough enough..lethargic looking rather than precise. how can it be more thorough? That thought..looking behind it & theres just nothing..empty or still or silent. I was looking for something..all that comes back is emptiness

Re: Please Ilona or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:07 pm
by ShamelessLikeTheSun
Yeah theres nothing to find. thats why its futile. looking for "something" but theres nothing when looking behind the looking for something feeling. Theres just openness or emptiness or vibrant silence/stillness cant describe it as SOME "THING". Its completely at rest while looking for something thoughts arise out of it already. cats purring out of it..like the basis of the cats purr is this relaxedness. Crows chirping down the chimney with the wind..same basis. like all rests within effortless relaxation. looking for some THING is just an idea..thought pops up to say..wheres the something to be found?! and another thought..ah! stay with this openness then..another label but no label will really stick. hmm..gotta be more than this cos this is nothing! nothing seeking something and never finding anything that can be something. breathing from this..already happening

Re: Please Ilona or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:37 pm
by ShamelessLikeTheSun
theres thoughts about how subtle this is and how it is nothing coming up again. There is okayness too intermitently arising between thoughts about it being too subtle. In direct experience again theres breathing, fingers typing, sounds and colours happening and an okayness..like that restingness is pervasive and includes the body/mind already and the daylight..already like that. relaxed. a thought comes to rush, the body looks like it rushes around but the rushing happens in...already calmness. thought says its too subtle to be identified as something so it will go away..that happens in this calmness. at the dentist the other day adrenalin in the body shaking all in this. what if i need to take part or speak..give opinions..mirror what another wants me to agree with? more thoughts. life speaks and it isnt owned already. yeah thoughts are all that seem to distract from whats already the case. only in thinking does the notion arise that theres something to find. breathing happening, sounds all effortlessly heard. what if I was in a terrible situation pops up..this is too subtle to rely on then..this feels like a pull to identify..again seeing that and breathing is happening..thought coming up..does anyone own thought? Nope. Can you tell what the nect thought will be? Nos there a me it relates to? No but it feels like there is. Does a feeling mean theres an actual entity? No

Re: Please Ilona or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:53 pm
by ShamelessLikeTheSun
some one in my life that really believes lifes down to us..like with saving my mum..as soon as they came in and started speaking its like those thoughts seem so real. like its down to me again and I am responsible..they feel so responsible and they project that onto me..this heavy obligation. i have a daughter at home aged 16 & when i say to this person I need to also spend time at home with her and cant stay every night with mum and them..they frown on me..it feels like they dont think i am good enough. i feel all pulled and pushed and bound to them when i want to say hey my daughter needs me home too..i know this is going on but others can also help some days..and i dont even know what should b like you seem to know. my mum goes to the brink and bavk again and again..save her life..its all so heavy. i feel like im someone again and all they talk about is how i shpuld be. im doing all i can and it feels like im still not good enough..so its this feeling of obligation..someone else thats just as bad as my own talking head..like an authority cpming in dhouting orders and if i dont jump when they say..they dont like me. sorry for sharing this stuff..just noticed that at that moment the openness seemed to b engulfed with all this responsibility and me not knowing what to do..feeling to get away and go home but trapped in this hell on repeat. i know its not really so..but it fuckin ferls so!

Re: Please Ilona or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:02 pm
by ShamelessLikeTheSun
like i dont know whats right and they say they do..so i become a bad guy again. theres alot of contraction and wanting out. maybe to go smoke a joint because it brings a kind of relief..but its all an endless hell. full stop..if its me and this is my life. i want to know its not but knowing doesnt make others know and let you be. so its another thought that it would bring that pushing and pulling feeling of being torn apart to an end. therell always be voices of authority telling you what to be do and its always to mirror how they want it to be. these things deem to be such a sucker back and forget the spontaneousness of this moment and how wild it is..how wild and free

Re: Please Ilona or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:20 pm
by ShamelessLikeTheSun
it only matters in thought! contracted feelings, even another person and what they seem to believe. the only true authority is the basis out of which all characters play. and every thought no matter how terrible or fantastic must go as sure as it came in the first place. now again remembering this is all part of the procesd! seeing thought and no longer just believing it. doing whats best happens without an i just as much as seemingly making a mess! X thanks for this great support to look. Listening to the audio meetings helps keep that remembering to look available somehow X

Re: Please Ilona or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:32 pm
by ShamelessLikeTheSun
like the stage is always relaxed no matter the play. coukd be a comedy or a tragedy or aggression or jumping around matching..but the stage is completely still and without the ground/basis/ there could be no play of any kind like without the paper/medium on which to write or paint there could be no appeaance of a performance..so the sky appears and the wind and characters dancing or frowning without a description theres just this ever shifting appearance unholdable and always changing but the basis is always the core and constant medium for the show of light colour music emotion thought movement happens within this resting space of stillness..like if running happens it only happening in the display..but here is still for it. lol X just a habit to say its my display! how to be absolutely honest?!

Re: Please Ilona or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:54 am
by Ilona
Good work writing this all down and seeing in front of you.

Have a look, are you an actress in the play? Are there other actors that play other roles?

When you think about what other people think of you, do you actually hear their thoughts or only your thoughts about their thoughts? Can you know what they are thinking, can you even to know that they are thinking? Can you know anything but these thoughts about other people's thoughts?

Can you see that the whole drama is just thoughts about what others think of you?
Are these thoughts telling truth?

Keep writing lots!

Sending love

Re: Please Ilona or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:05 am
by ShamelessLikeTheSun
thats true..only thoughts about thoughts imagining what others think of me and tormenting myself with them. the me feels like someone solid to blame there but when looking it was just a play. focus was given to it as if it was real but it all happened in my head! i cant know what other ppls thoughts are..its a guess based on my own thoughts about them or who i am to them. what was best happened anyway while the thoughts came and went.
it feels like there is an actress defending something against others but when i relax that relaxes and can see its not really..though it seems so common to believe til then. Remember..all part of the process is helping because otherwise it seems like its a groove i slip into again. last night i dreamt i was going somewhere and had to find a place..it felt like a me who was doing it but it was all happening in my head..feelings..thoughts..even the situations going on. a habit of referencing thoughts or focusing on them and then believing thats really whats happening. the person i was talking about once i spoke to them clearly..i could see they werent what i projected on them. this was intense yesterday and uncomfortable seeing that game and how i make myself a victim and create an aggressor. it feels so common to fall into doing it..i just did that all my life so many times.
i read that scientists found out dolphins call eachother by name in the ocean..a friend said do you still believe theres no me if even dolphins are calling eachother as seperate entities..it shocked me for a moment and in that shock i saw how i had a belief that theres no me without really knowing theres not because i felt to defend it. and it scared me. but really name calling doesnt mean theres someone there..only a way to navigate and communicate in the world..doesnt need a me to answer a call..like if the phone rings..pick it up happens. but it showed that rather than looking theres been wishful thinking or believing its that way..hoping it is..while not really looking and knowing it is. looking thoroughly hasnt happened but seeing the mechanisms of why a self is believed is happening and

Re: Please Ilona or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:07 am
by ShamelessLikeTheSun
not always easy to be honest about it X back in a few hours and thanks again for this X much much love of hugs X :-))

Re: Please Ilona or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:38 pm
by Ilona
Beautiful. Great to notice the mechanisms, just keep investigating.

Yeah, if we give a name to a cat or dog, we call them and they come, simple conditioning. Same is human animal, responds to her name. But the name is assumed to be an entity, someone that is operating this bag of bones and skin. It's almost magic, how naming "creates" objects, subjects and and qualities. Language is what builds the illusion of still, unchanging things, bit it's all concepts about concepts, thoughts about thoughts.

Have a look, does your story about past events change? Does it depend on a mood? Does it appear slightly different each time it's remembered? Does your mum, friend, colleague remember same stuff or their story is different about same event? Is there a true story about this one event? What would story about you look from different points of view, like stranger, parent, best friend? Examine this closely. See how stories about other peoples stories get created in the head.

What else do you notice an out these mechanisms?

Re: Please Ilona or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:49 pm
by ShamelessLikeTheSun
Sorry Ilona, last night I was reading on the forum and intended to reply but fell asleep reading one of the blogs.
Have a look, does your story about past events change? Does it depend on a mood? Does it appear slightly different each time it's remembered? Does your mum, friend, colleague remember same stuff or their story is different about same event? Is there a true story about this one event? What would story about you look from different points of view, like stranger, parent, best friend? Examine this closely. See how stories about other peoples stories get created in the head.

What else do you notice about these mechanisms?
My story about past events does change and has changed many times yes, definitely, the past isn't fixed as in the thoughts judgements and sensations, points of views change, in my experience it seems like as more information is added over life it seems to shed light on past events and that seems to alter the past in memory,more information, more options patterns of behaviour=-other outcomes, like forgiveness rather than only seeing victim like theres more possibilities with more information life is gathering of information, experience,and hindsight and insight and also it affects this moment as seeing there was no one to blame then I can be with people I used to only project roles to, including my role, which was the one that really held the others in place. Like its a level field, seeing clear now sees clear everywhere, maybe very subtle, if I look back its easier to see there was never any judge but myself and the victim story was an extremely effective way to defend the belief mechanism of I as being something solid, Look I am someone after all, you were all wrong about me and I was wrong about myself, what I feared most was being nothing and being unable to fulfil the roles assigned to me by others or the roles I assumed I had assigned to myself, the roles are not personal, an I is part of the play, it makes the play playable, so there can be objects and differentiation, thus a story/script. But no one called me is writing it or doctoring it and editing out the words to make me look better than I think myself, and no one can delete some parts unfavourable and paste in happiness. Crop and trim the images and Photoshop the perceived mistakes and theres no one who can change the script, or change the characters, whatever happens is not controlled by an entity that is who I am. No. Lots of thoughts about how I sound like a know it all or a parot and this isn't really insightful or is just another clever speech from a parot, noticed that when investigating and the narrative asks questions it all gets muddled there of who is speaking and is this another BS waste of time or seeing the behaviour like a seeker and a pretend knower of truth and its like I tricked myself without being aware of doing it, another story. Listening to the rain is happening, feet move without any time to think about feet moving, only after they have begun moving does the info come about the happening of moving feet. Drinking and its the same way, automatically and spontaneously and then a thought just after claiming to be the drinker who also picked up the cup and held it, drank from it and put it back on the table, and thought about it, thinks about it right now. Just like a stream of thoughts one after another like the words on here. The story about me if looked at from a stranger or family/friend would be different to the story that plays here about me, some wouldn't have a story at all for me, a stranger in the street, my parents may have a story of me not meeting expectations and not being as functional as they would have expected me to be, but you know, I can see that its not true, cos that did go on in the story and it was me that perpetuated and milked it, they were sharing their concern for me, wanting me to do well, from that belief and I was adding all kinds of meanings to it, warping it into some mad prison/prism in my head and living in ideas and not really seeing them at all as empty as this. There is a sense of me as if located in the head, behind the eyes, looking, I don't know how to look in or take a step back, I have heard folks say to do that, or search inside, I don't know where inside is, there isn't anywhere I can find that's back or behind here, just looking, there's colours, light, sound, sensations, breathing, hair dangling down like a pair of open curtains for a window that has no glass or edge and it has no shape that can be outlined, it just isn't bound by the law of material laws, although within the view the picture appears and like magic as you said with the words, images make things and objects and people and details and meaning for some one who is real. Like an ever changing tapestry and the images within it say I am real and I am the one in control of this whole tapestry and its moving as I command it!
See how stories about other peoples stories get created in the head
Yes, and more aware of that for the other day, which felt like hell at the time but it seems like its all wiping away the BS gradually somehow, and like you said let things burn part of the process, I am just not used to staying with uncomfortable feelings or whatever is perceived as they are and the words help to just relax instead of run and this is nice to see that whats behind it is more openness to say yes to what arises without flying into a description and hiding out in another concept, its like a shallow grave, can never hide the stench for long before a dog comes digging up the old bones again and the stories start chewing, like that film, the langaliers, these little creates that come and eat reality..as in the world, except thoughts don't have bodies and they cant actually eat the world or even touch it, only by being believed and acted out is a thought affecting anything, and even then its a body building a shed and no thought can be seen in reality then either, the shed is there from a concept that's become a part of the tapestry because it was focused on? Xx

Re: Please Ilona or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:20 am
by Ilona
Storyland is quite an amusement park!

Have a closer look, what is so precious about "my story", what makes it special, what claims it " mine"? And what is behind it?

What is here underneath all story?

Describe what you see.

Sending love.