Dear Ben,
“The thought tries?”
Good point. The thoughts are not trying, they just appear and disappear, not driven by any outside entity. And their role is to seemingly separate this from that, the focus being on seemingly."
Yes.
"When I look, there is no separate entity, only the awareness, the noticing and “objects” appearing such as sounds, fingers, action, thoughts, etc. That separate you only seem to exist in thoughts. But who believes those thoughts? The thoughts themselves?"
Belief happens or not. No believer.
“There is no separate self. I was just looking at the computer, and then closed my eyes. When the eyes are open, there is a computer, when I close them, I can only imagine it, but it then only exists in thoughts. If I do the same with the self, I see that the self not only exists now, but it has never existed. It does not have any color, shape or anything real. Wow. That’s shocking in a way. And relieving at the same time. And crazy! And it makes life look like a “game” without any “players”, without anybody there to play it."
YES!!!!!!!!!
"Word thought are part of the flow, so that fraction cannot capture the whole. One is real and word thought is a label."
Yes.
"The question I have is what is going on when “not examined”, when not looked. The noticing is still going on very naturally without any effort. But there seems to be something, a thought, a belief that projects an “I” into “the past” in a way. Yeah, those are just more thoughts, not more."
Yes. The thought of self still appears. The story of you. Yet it is known to be just that. A story.
"There are objects (hand, table, etc.) appearing and at the same time there is a thought labeling appearing."
There are perceptions occurring which thought labels hand table etc.
Yes?
"There is only this happening what is happening right now. Nothing else. There are thoughts as well, but they all happen here and not separate from the flow. If there were thoughts or anything separate from the flow, it would not be noticed. Not only that, but it would not exist. There is no self, no you, no separate entity. There is only the flow and everything is part of it. It is just going on whether with or without a seemingly separate self-appearing in thoughts or not. "
DOUBLE YES!!!!!
Does it feel like you are a separate observer or "awareness"?
Love,
Nettie
Nettie is available if you want a guide
-
Actuallyone
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:29 am
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Nettie,
"Belief happens or not. No believer."
Yes!
"Yes. The thought of self still appears. The story of you. Yet it is known to be just that. A story."
Yes
"There are perceptions occurring which thought labels hand table etc.
Yes?"
Yes, there is awareness/ perceptions, which are labeled. As such there is not even a full body in reality, but as a label.
"Does it feel like you are a separate observer or "awareness"?"
It feels like i am the awareness, in which perceptions occur. It feels very spacious, light, always on, untouchable, un-changable, not affected by any perceptions. The observersation cannot be separate from everything else.
Love,
Nettie
"Belief happens or not. No believer."
Yes!
"Yes. The thought of self still appears. The story of you. Yet it is known to be just that. A story."
Yes
"There are perceptions occurring which thought labels hand table etc.
Yes?"
Yes, there is awareness/ perceptions, which are labeled. As such there is not even a full body in reality, but as a label.
"Does it feel like you are a separate observer or "awareness"?"
It feels like i am the awareness, in which perceptions occur. It feels very spacious, light, always on, untouchable, un-changable, not affected by any perceptions. The observersation cannot be separate from everything else.
Love,
Nettie
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Ben,
"It feels like i am the awareness, in which perceptions occur. It feels very spacious, light, always on, untouchable, un-changable, not affected by any perceptions. The observersation cannot be separate from everything else."
I'm not sure what you are saying.
It kinda sounds like two things here.
Has there ever been awareness without perception or perception without awareness?
Awareness may feel unchanging but as time is a mental construct ....it is only thought that says it is the same. Naturally occurring labels just like all word/thought.
So there is no chooser decider do-er? Can you give an example from your life where this has been noticed?
Much love,
Nettie
"It feels like i am the awareness, in which perceptions occur. It feels very spacious, light, always on, untouchable, un-changable, not affected by any perceptions. The observersation cannot be separate from everything else."
I'm not sure what you are saying.
It kinda sounds like two things here.
Has there ever been awareness without perception or perception without awareness?
Awareness may feel unchanging but as time is a mental construct ....it is only thought that says it is the same. Naturally occurring labels just like all word/thought.
So there is no chooser decider do-er? Can you give an example from your life where this has been noticed?
Much love,
Nettie
-
Actuallyone
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:29 am
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Nettie,
“I'm not sure what you are saying.
It kinda sounds like two things here.
Has there ever been awareness without perception or perception without awareness?”
For sure, there is no perception without awareness. When I mentioned the perceptions occur in awareness, I was referring to that “feeling alive”, e.g. in the moment the body wakes up in the morning, there seems to be a moment when there is awareness and that feeling alive, but no other perception. Strictly speaking, even that feeling alive can be a perception, though. Not sure whether it is a matter of a different word definition?
“Awareness may feel unchanging but as time is a mental construct ....it is only thought that says it is the same. Naturally occurring labels just like all word/thought. “
Yes, I guess what I mean is that the awareness does not have any qualities. Awareness goes hand in hand with perception, it feels like the “world” is being built in that continuous flow through perception and awareness, always anew.
“So there is no chooser decider do-er? Can you give an example from your life where this has been noticed?”
There is no chooser, decider or do-er. The example for the awareness is above. For the no-doer, no chooser, I can give you an example now. There is just typing happening, breathing happening, sounds happening. But they are not driven by anything or anybody. There is nobody choosing the thoughts, or what words to use. It just all happens without anybody there trying to change it.
Much love,
Ben
“I'm not sure what you are saying.
It kinda sounds like two things here.
Has there ever been awareness without perception or perception without awareness?”
For sure, there is no perception without awareness. When I mentioned the perceptions occur in awareness, I was referring to that “feeling alive”, e.g. in the moment the body wakes up in the morning, there seems to be a moment when there is awareness and that feeling alive, but no other perception. Strictly speaking, even that feeling alive can be a perception, though. Not sure whether it is a matter of a different word definition?
“Awareness may feel unchanging but as time is a mental construct ....it is only thought that says it is the same. Naturally occurring labels just like all word/thought. “
Yes, I guess what I mean is that the awareness does not have any qualities. Awareness goes hand in hand with perception, it feels like the “world” is being built in that continuous flow through perception and awareness, always anew.
“So there is no chooser decider do-er? Can you give an example from your life where this has been noticed?”
There is no chooser, decider or do-er. The example for the awareness is above. For the no-doer, no chooser, I can give you an example now. There is just typing happening, breathing happening, sounds happening. But they are not driven by anything or anybody. There is nobody choosing the thoughts, or what words to use. It just all happens without anybody there trying to change it.
Much love,
Ben
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Ben,
"For sure, there is no perception without awareness. When I mentioned the perceptions occur in awareness, I was referring to that “feeling alive”, e.g. in the moment the body wakes up in the morning, there seems to be a moment when there is awareness and that feeling alive, but no other perception. Strictly speaking, even that feeling alive can be a perception, though. Not sure whether it is a matter of a different word definition?"
Yes. The awareness then is 'colored' with the perception of aliveness.
"Yes, I guess what I mean is that the awareness does not have any qualities. Awareness goes hand in hand with perception, it feels like the “world” is being built in that continuous flow through perception and awareness, always anew."
Yes.
"There is no chooser, decider or do-er. The example for the awareness is above. For the no-doer, no chooser, I can give you an example now. There is just typing happening, breathing happening, sounds happening. But they are not driven by anything or anybody. There is nobody choosing the thoughts, or what words to use. It just all happens without anybody there trying to change it."
Nice!
Would you like to answer the final questions now?
Love,
Ben
"For sure, there is no perception without awareness. When I mentioned the perceptions occur in awareness, I was referring to that “feeling alive”, e.g. in the moment the body wakes up in the morning, there seems to be a moment when there is awareness and that feeling alive, but no other perception. Strictly speaking, even that feeling alive can be a perception, though. Not sure whether it is a matter of a different word definition?"
Yes. The awareness then is 'colored' with the perception of aliveness.
"Yes, I guess what I mean is that the awareness does not have any qualities. Awareness goes hand in hand with perception, it feels like the “world” is being built in that continuous flow through perception and awareness, always anew."
Yes.
"There is no chooser, decider or do-er. The example for the awareness is above. For the no-doer, no chooser, I can give you an example now. There is just typing happening, breathing happening, sounds happening. But they are not driven by anything or anybody. There is nobody choosing the thoughts, or what words to use. It just all happens without anybody there trying to change it."
Nice!
Would you like to answer the final questions now?
Love,
Ben
-
Actuallyone
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:29 am
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Nettie,
"Would you like to answer the final questions now?"
Yes!
Love,
Ben
"Would you like to answer the final questions now?"
Yes!
Love,
Ben
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Ben,
Here are the final questions:
1)Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2)Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3)How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4)What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5)Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
6)Anything to add?
Love,
Nettie
Here are the final questions:
1)Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2)Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3)How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4)What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5)Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
6)Anything to add?
Love,
Nettie
-
Actuallyone
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:29 am
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Nettie,
1)Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
There is and never has been a separate self, at no time, not anywhere.
2)Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The illusion of separate self only appears in thoughts, in a seeming story of “you” or “I”. When looked for, or when not looked for, there is no self. When we grow up and everyone around us pretends like they are separate selves, at the beginning I remember that it felt weird and strange what those adults do, i.e. to pretend like they or we kids can be a do-er or thinker or controller, which in a way is projected upon us. At the beginning that may be strange, but the more we see it, and even our friends start to believe it, it feels like that pretending to be a separate self is part of the growing up thing. At some point it does not even appear to be strange anymore, but there is still always a sense that something is not quite right. It is so easy to see that there is no self but if it is never looked at or really questioned, it seems like it is real for most people.
3)How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
At first it felt a bit shocking to see that there is no self, i.e. that such a belief can be so strong and nobody sees that. At the same time, it feels like a big “relief” in a way, like a playground without any players in. It is a huge difference in a way that everything feels lighter and the “story of you” lost its seriousness, and only appears in thoughts, but is nothing real. Life is still happening as before, but somewhat there is more peace, and less interest in stories overall, whether that is news or personal stories, and more attention to what is going on “now”. Also, it feels like “the world” is being built afresh now and now and now and now and now…. And there is no world out there that is fixed.
4)What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Overall, the simply looking was the key. Through the looking, many beliefs were diminished, one big one of them seeing how there was something trying to alter the flow of life incl. the body and thoughts, pretending that I was separate from the flow of life. The last bit, was to clearly see that there is no self, but there were many more. were so many.
5)Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
Life is just happening without any entity deciding, intending, choosing or controlling anything in life. Right now for instance, there is just a typing going on, the sound of the typing, labeling of words, but there is no entity deciding or controlling anything. Another example is that going to this forum and looking for a guide, all of that just happened. That is true for every life event. There is never anyone doing anything.
6)Anything to add?
It’s amazing how simple it is too see this.
Much love,
Ben
1)Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
There is and never has been a separate self, at no time, not anywhere.
2)Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The illusion of separate self only appears in thoughts, in a seeming story of “you” or “I”. When looked for, or when not looked for, there is no self. When we grow up and everyone around us pretends like they are separate selves, at the beginning I remember that it felt weird and strange what those adults do, i.e. to pretend like they or we kids can be a do-er or thinker or controller, which in a way is projected upon us. At the beginning that may be strange, but the more we see it, and even our friends start to believe it, it feels like that pretending to be a separate self is part of the growing up thing. At some point it does not even appear to be strange anymore, but there is still always a sense that something is not quite right. It is so easy to see that there is no self but if it is never looked at or really questioned, it seems like it is real for most people.
3)How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
At first it felt a bit shocking to see that there is no self, i.e. that such a belief can be so strong and nobody sees that. At the same time, it feels like a big “relief” in a way, like a playground without any players in. It is a huge difference in a way that everything feels lighter and the “story of you” lost its seriousness, and only appears in thoughts, but is nothing real. Life is still happening as before, but somewhat there is more peace, and less interest in stories overall, whether that is news or personal stories, and more attention to what is going on “now”. Also, it feels like “the world” is being built afresh now and now and now and now and now…. And there is no world out there that is fixed.
4)What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
Overall, the simply looking was the key. Through the looking, many beliefs were diminished, one big one of them seeing how there was something trying to alter the flow of life incl. the body and thoughts, pretending that I was separate from the flow of life. The last bit, was to clearly see that there is no self, but there were many more. were so many.
5)Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
Life is just happening without any entity deciding, intending, choosing or controlling anything in life. Right now for instance, there is just a typing going on, the sound of the typing, labeling of words, but there is no entity deciding or controlling anything. Another example is that going to this forum and looking for a guide, all of that just happened. That is true for every life event. There is never anyone doing anything.
6)Anything to add?
It’s amazing how simple it is too see this.
Much love,
Ben
Re: Nettie is available if you want a guide
Dear Ben,
It has been confirmed that you have seen through the illusion of separation.
There are many LU groups that are very supportive we can add you to if you PM me with your FB name.
It has been a beautiful time here with you in this most intimate inquiry.
Love,
Nettie
It has been confirmed that you have seen through the illusion of separation.
There are many LU groups that are very supportive we can add you to if you PM me with your FB name.
It has been a beautiful time here with you in this most intimate inquiry.
Love,
Nettie
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