Locustafiera requesting guide

[Locustafiera]

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You are thinking I am asking the thoughts a conceptual riddle.
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That's not what I meant to convey, you described it perfectly later - giving of angles and openings.
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Is it clear that 'I' is an illusion.
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Yes, but only when I think it through. Then it seems so obvious, and I feel slow for not being able to see it immediately, although the stronger feeling is of relief and letting go.

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Is there still seeking? For what?
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Yes. For what happened back at the first moment of clarity. When I wrote 'there's nothing to find and nothing is looking. How silly...'. When suddenly there was nothing to be or do and life started just to flow and the world was beautiful. But things are becoming clearer - there is nowhere to get to except where everything is already, here, now. I meditated at lunchtime and it was nice and when that happens and the bell goes there is usually a thought of 'damn, just when I was getting somewhere'. But today no such feeling, no feeling of a need to get somewhere. We stretch out this only real moment into a whole story don't we? Where I came from, where I'm going. When all there is is here, now. The rest is a dream. We get lost in it.
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Huh? What is this organism.....
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OK. Awakening is an idea too isn't it? It doesn't exist.
Maybe better to say, there's no awakening, instead there's a dropping, a dissolution, of a belief. But what or who holds the belief, and why? It must have served a purpose sometime, no?
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When is there NOT awareness of experience?
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By 'just' I meant; 'nothing more than' I.e. no need for a sense of I.

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By reasoning, do you mean conceptual analysis.....is that needed to see there is no self?
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What is conceptual analysis? By reasoning I mean the following, and yes it is needed to see, at present:

I look, I can't find anything, and eventually realise that nothing is found because there is no one there to do the looking, and so there can't be anything to find, because things worthy of being found need searchers. Lost, found, these are ideas too. There are no lost things without losers and no found things without finders.

The belief in self dropped away, but there was a belief hanging around that the self can do stuff, like search. That belief seems to exist independently of the belief in self itself. Wow.
Is this right? Is this conceptual analysis?
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Are these expectations relevant to anything..
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Nope. Nothing to find, no one searching, dreamers dreams about other dreamers dreams. No one in control, no one to be in control, no control required. Irrelevant.
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Nothing exists outside the present moment.
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Need to take a breather. How is it going so far?

[Hannah B-T]

Is it clear that 'I' is an illusion.
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Yes, but only when I think it through. Then it seems so obvious, and I feel slow for not being able to see it immediately, although the stronger feeling is of relief and letting go.

oh crap.
Those thoughts have picked up this and turned it into another belief...
Stop thinking about this, wanting and waiting for thought to verify and validate perception.
Perception just IS.

So i am asking you to take another look OUTSIDE of the thinking and check if there is a self there. Right now.
Is there?

I want you to set an alarm (phone vibrate etc) to go off every 1/2 hour in the day. Seriously. When it goes off the question that should be asked simply is this:

Is there a self in this experience right now?

Ask it just like if i was right there in front of you now and asking you:

Have you got a mobile on you i could borrow?

just take a look, with the senses... and see what is found...takes about 10 seconds.

I mean you could respond to your friend... 'well i think i put my mobile in my bag this morning but i;m not sure...it;s a great cellphone it has all these features and the ringtone is a funny song i found online last week and maybe i should get a new phone...'

Or you could just look.

But today no such feeling, no feeling of a need to get somewhere. We stretch out this only real moment into a whole story don't we? Where I came from, where I'm going. When all there is is here, now. The rest is a dream. We get lost in it.

There is direct perception, which includes the experience of thought.
And as well there is the content of thoughts (the dream/story as you put it)
both are occurring? Check this!
This process is simply clarifying which is which.
That's it.

Which category does 'i'/'me' 'self' fall into?

Which word below matches closest to that for you at the moment?

Table
University
Batman

Huh? What is this organism.....
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OK. Awakening is an idea too isn't it? It doesn't exist.
Maybe better to say, there's no awakening, instead there's a dropping, a dissolution, of a belief. But what or who holds the belief, and why? It must have served a purpose sometime, no?

Well, apparently this 'organism' does!
You didn't answer my direct question.
Please answer the question.
What EXACTLY were you referring to when you used the word 'organism' here?
Take a look at the original statement that was made.

The belief in self dropped away, but there was a belief hanging around that the self can do stuff, like search. That belief seems to exist independently of the belief in self itself. Wow.
Is this right? Is this conceptual analysis?

Why are you now talking in the past tense?
it's irrelevant to this process what happened 5 minutes ago! i'm only interested at this point in reports from the direct experience right now. Please speak from that place.

If the belief in self had really dropped away, how could there then be a belief in a self that can search?
See how tricky the thoughts can be with this?!

Need to take a breather. How is it going so far?

That's for you to tell me...
This is just a mirror remember. :)

[Locustafiera]

OK.
There is a me in direct experience now.
It's this body, whose fingers tap on the phone glass surface.
Self right now falls in to the category of 'thought content'.
When I referred to organism I meant this body, whose fingers tap ...etc.
It's most like a table.

[Hannah B-T]

That's the spirit!...

you are the body.

is this true?
Which part of the body?
all of it?
Where are you?
What size are you?
what shape?
what density?
(if i asked these questions to describe a table you would be able to give clear answers right?)

Is there, right now, a sense of an inside that is 'you' and and outside that is 'not you', like a container of some kind?
if so, what is that container in direct sensory experience, how is it perceived?

[Locustafiera]

It's true
All of it
Here
Size - medium to large
Shaped like a human male
Pretty dense :-)
Yes there is a sense of inside and outside.
It's perceived like, I see things outside that are other than me. The eyes are part of me. They move with me, in me. I hear sounds outside me, made by other things. Etc. I have these sense instruments - parts of me, always with me, orienting me, the body. I sense thoughts inside my head. One of these thoughts is 'what the f am I doing!'

[Hannah B-T]

One of these thoughts is 'what the f am I doing!'

What a great question! Are you asking these thoughts...or those ones?

I have never had a problem understanding that the self cannot reside anywhere physically. I know I won't find a physical self.

-November 27th.
???!!

I'm confused about what's happened here...perhaps you could explain?
It seems there a fear of letting go/of questioning the usual thoughts about what the body is in direct experience?
Do you want to continue this inquiry and questioning these assumptions? If so we can do some more exercises to explore that together.

Walks in nature are good... (i know it's cold!)
Just take a gentle look at if the body is actually separate from the nature around you.


If you do, reread the thread where we started investigating the

[Hannah B-T]

sorry ignore the last sentence...

[Locustafiera]

Err...You asked me to look now. Then you brought up a post from some time ago, which you didn't believe was honest in any case, and used it to challenge my response.
Who's confused now!
Of course I want to do this, and I am very much appreciating the help you are giving. You guided me to a wonderful glimpse of something I had been yearning for. Don't give up on me now!

[Locustafiera]

The occasional bit of humour is there to lighten things for me by the way. It doesn't mean I am not taking this seriously. I'm deadly serious, but a bit slow.

[Locustafiera]

Re: questioning the thoughts about what the body is in usual experience. We didn't cover this before. My first moment of clarity came up just before I would have addressed your question on what's inside and what's outside. And I think that's where you were going with questions about bum on chair, which I experienced after careful investigation as 'a plank of feeling, neither bum nor chair'.

I would like to investigate this subject more. I don't think I am fearful.

[Hannah B-T]

ok great, that's clearer. My mistake!

Let's take this in small chunks, one sense at a time, no rush. Yes, it's exactly the same as the sitting thing. maybe do that again, as many times as needed to feel confident in what was seen before...touching surfaces... feet/floor... back/bed... is there direct experience of a 'feeler' and 'felt'?
this is always available to inquire into!

Did you try the music exercise i mentioned?
Take a unknown piece of music without lyrics. Put it on and just relax into it.
Drop in these questions:
Can you find a boundary between 'you' and 'the music'? or in another way a 'hearer' and the 'heard'?
Can you find 'ears that hear?'...'a head?'
Can you find a 'here' and a 'there'?

[Locustafiera]

Cool. Will get onto these now and post again tomorrow. Thanks!

[Locustafiera]

Hi Hannah,

Last night I did as suggested as I lay in bed. The following describes my direct experience then, not now. I hope that's OK. If not, please explain why.

It felt as if there was nothing between my body and other things. It felt like I was embedded in reality, rather than a separate, distinct part of it. It seemed rather obvious that this should be the case. Thoughts occurred concerning light, sound, warmth, radio waves, TV and wifi signals that travel through the something that everything is connected to or by.

When I look there seems to be only feeling, no distinct feeler/felt.

I did the music exercise today, and was a tiny bit stunned by it. It feels as if the music IS me, or exists where I am, as if there is a void or vast spaces between the atoms of me where it plays. There is no direct experience of ear, with the sole exception of the pulsing air pressure on the eardrum from the base (it was in a car), which was experienced as a separate sensation from the music.

That's not my experience right now though. I am just about to sit quietly in front of the fire and look again.

[Hannah B-T]

It felt as if there was nothing between my body and other things. It felt like I was embedded in reality, rather than a separate, distinct part of it. It seemed rather obvious that this should be the case. Thoughts occurred concerning light, sound, warmth, radio waves, TV and wifi signals that travel through the something that everything is connected to or by.

It's great you could see here the difference between the experience and the thoughts ABOUT the experience. Nice looking.

When I look there seems to be only feeling, no distinct feeler/felt.

Beautiful.
Is there EVER a time when that's not the case?
i.e when an actual 'feeler' pops into existence?
Keep looking at this...

I did the music exercise today, and was a tiny bit stunned by it. It feels as if the music IS me, or exists where I am

Nice but not feeling completely clear with the 'as if'...Listen again.
Was there a 'me' there AT ALL whilst this experience was occurring? (question this afterwards).
Or is there just the experience of sounds.
Right here.

There is no direct experience of ear

Just really being clear here- was there a mental picture (which is a thought) of an ear popping up when you ask this question?

With eyes closed- if i say 'what are the sensations in your left foot'- any images of a foot that arise with the raw sensations?

with the sole exception of the pulsing air pressure on the eardrum from the base

ok, there was a sensation, labelled 'pulsing pressure'...but where did the 'eardrum' come from? could you actually feel an eardrum? or 'base' for that matter?

I am just about to sit quietly in front of the fire and look again.

Fire might be great for vision. (seeing is often the sense most tricky to look like this into, it was here)
relax into watching the fire.
Can you find a 'watcher'?
a thing that is 'watched'?
Is there a you 'here' and a fire 'over there'
or is there just seeing?
Happening right here.

Nothing to do.
Nothing to be.
Life..just life-ing.

[Locustafiera]

Hi,
Didn't get a chance to look much today, so this is going to be brief and just answering the easy questions;
Yes, I have noticed before too that whenever thinking about a body part, a rough mental image forms, as if the word cannot be processed without the image.