Ready for guidance

[Belinda]

Hello Pete,

In direct experience:

Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?

No, in direct experience I can find no "self" that is the "experiencer." Experience happens.

Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?

In direct experience, no doing, no control. The "self" is just thoughts, not in charge.

Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?

No "self" to make decisions. Decisions happen.

Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?

No "self" "does the thinking." Thinking happens.

Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?

Yes, "body" is a label for sensations.

Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?

The five body senses simply arise, and are experienced. The "self" does not make senses arise. Experience happens, "self" (thoughts) happen after, and claim it as something that happened to "me"

Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’

There is absolutely no separation.

Is there doubt or unclarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?

No doubt.

Are there any doubts about seeing through the illusion of separate self?

No doubts.
I see that I will be seeing more.

It isn't that doubt-thoughts are gone, but that I see through them, they don't matter. It isn't like "certainty" because that is something gained... This is just seeng what is true under everything else. And it really isn't "something" - which ego expects....ego wants "accomplishment."

Belinda

[moondog]

Hi Belinda,

Lovely replies. I'm really pleased to have been able to help point you towards seeing through the illusion of a separate self.

Here are the final questions. Once I get your answers, I'll put them forward for other guides for any comments. Then I'll arrange for you to get access to various aftercare and other groups on Facebook and the LU site if you want that. Have you got a Facebook name? If so, either let me know here or, if you prefer, PM it to me.

Always from direct experience.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything
happen?

Please give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

Lots of love, Pete

[Belinda]

Hi Pete,
I'm not ready to do this yet. I feel actually like I do need to go back and look at what we've done before. I don't feel like I'm "there." (I know that "there's no there, there" but... language...)
Love,
Belinda

[moondog]

Hi Belinda,

No problem, it's good that you are being open and honest with yourself about this. Rest assured, I'll be here to guide you until you're absolutely sure. I want you to know that you've seen!

Your recent replies have been very clear and definite, strongly indicating to me that you have clearly seen that there's no separate self, and that you recognise I-thoughts, doubts etc. for what they are, unreal distractions. However, in the end it's for you to have clarity that there's no self, not me.

If the uncertainty is persisting, let me know more about it and I'll help you to be sure that you have passed through the Gate.

Anyway, let me know how it's going today.

Love, Pete

[Belinda]

Hi Pete,
I've been traveling the past couple of days, so my attention has been divided. But I'll be back tomorrow.
Belinda

[moondog]

Hi Belinda,

Thanks for letting me know.

Look forward to hearing from you tomorrow.

Love, Pete

[Belinda]

Hello Pete,
A short note - I am still here. Basically integrating the fruits of the process. I had the experience of "stalling" - what I now realize is that I had the feeling/thought "I don't want this process to stop", and so, unaware, that allowed other thoughts that justified putting on the brakes. (Like, "this can't be IT" and "it can't be this simple" etc.)
With some help from a friend already "thru the gate" I understood this, and lightened up. I opened to basic awareness, and again saw there is no "me." So this is not something "I" "did" - one of my mind's most basic confusions is that things have to happen, and someone (that is, "me") has to be doing them. But there is no I, no doing - there is no "this" either!!! Just reality, here.
A lot more coming up, tomorrow.

Belinda

[moondog]

Hi Belinda,

Good to hear from you, and that you've been integrating what you've uncovered over the last few weeks, after 'stalling' for a while. It's not an uncommon thing to happen after what you've experienced and I'm pleased that you've been helped to see through that.

Looking forward to your next, fuller post later today.

Lots of love, Pete

[Belinda]

Hi Pete,
Here’s something I’ll share about the integration. I’ve been looking back at the questions, and my answers. Today, reading the parts about seeing no “I” in actions, and no “I” in choices and decisions, I remember that this is where things started to get “sticky.” And I feel it again- a tension – stomach and shoulders – upon thinking how there is no “me” making any decisions and choices. Some kind of resistance - probably fear? Yes, when asked it says that it is about control. Ah, of course - I’ve been looking at this from other angles. I’ve seen how I learned that “I” needed to DO, and make effort. That I needed to think, and try, and feel tension and all kinds of other things – the whole ball of wax. So THAT is what I feel coming through – the tension and trying that I always thought was needed to live life. Ah, this is so much clearer now Its almost like it is saying, Wait, are you sure you don't need this?? like an early-warning system as it starts to let go. That's all that fear/resistance is - some kind of basic alarm when there's a change in the system somewhere.
More soon,
Belinda

[moondog]

Hi Belinda,

Just a quick reply as I got the impression you're going to write more soon.

Ah, this is so much clearer now Its almost like it is saying, Wait, are you sure you don't need this?? like an early-warning system as it starts to let go. That's all that fear/resistance is - some kind of basic alarm when there's a change in the system somewhere.

Clearly this process is a big deal for anyone, so it's understandable that fear and resistance arise. But just remember that it's not your fear it's just feelings coming up, with I-thoughts velcroed on . Also, fear is there as a protection, there to protect 'you'. But it can't discriminate between a real danger, like falling off a cliff, a man with a knife following you or whatever, and the loss of something that didn't even exist in the first place i.e. a separate self.

If you try to resist the feeling of fear it simply feeds it. I know it's not easy but, whenever it arises, just see it for what it is, just feeling-with-thought, thank it for it's concern and just be aware of it's presence until it passes.

Love, Pete

[moondog]

Hi Belinda,

Just to recap, before I sent you the final questions about a week ago, we went back through all the areas of your search for a separate self, to make sure that you had no doubts, and were absolutely clear that you had seen through the illusion of self. At the time, you confirmed to me that you had no doubts at all but, after receiving the final questions, it became plain that there were some doubts and that you had 'stalled'. You have since been investigating your doubts and resistance, as well as integrating what you have seen and, from what you say now, seem to have cleared up the areas of uncertainty.

You've done so much work here and uncovered so much, and I really don't want to see you to drift away at this crucial late stage. So, please answer the following question in light of your present direct experience:

Are there now any doubts about seeing through the illusion of separate self?

If not, can you please now let me have your answers to the final questions.

If there are still any doubts, let me know what they are so I can help you to see through them.

Lots of love,

Pete

Love, Pete

[Belinda]

Hello Pete,
You asked:

Are there now any doubts about seeing through the illusion of separate self?

There are no doubts.

The answers to the final questions will be coming.

Thanks,
Belinda

[moondog]

Hi Belinda,

That's great.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Pete x

[Belinda]

Hello Pete,

Here are my answers to the questions.

Is there a separate entity ‘self’, ‘me,’ ‘I’ at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, the separate entity of “me” “self” etc does not exist, can not exist, except as passing thoughts.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts, and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

It is all in the mind, the thoughts. (Developmentally, evolutionarily - it is something about having the kind of brains we do, with the kind of capabilities we have.) It starts when the mind kicks in, with labels for and thoughts about everything. Then it balloons with emotions, and identification with the thoughts & emotions. The mind also thinks it has to do and control things, and works a LOT to keep busy "doing" these things.
Now, I've seen (with astonishment) how busy this person Belinda has been with things that aren't real, instead of paying attention to that which does not change. That in me is the same as the weather, the stones, the sky, the water. Sounds so religious, but really it is beyond beyond beyond simple - which is the irony of it, I suppose. (It used to be thought, here, that knowing this would be big, it would be something that "happened" - now I see that it is a shift of ... noticing I guess. Investment.)

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the last few days.

Now, there is an awareness, so subtle and simple it could almost be drowned out by the loud mind... and no matter what, when I look, I see. There is nothing mystical about it. It is so simple, I almost thought this couldn’t be “it.” I know it is independent of my thoughts, moods, and emotions – so there is much more space now to look at all of those when they happen. This awareness brings peace and acceptance of things as they are, including myself. (A few times recently I’ve thought of this self/body as “this organism.”) Letting go of the “do-er” in the mind. My mind hasn’t stopped – “Belinda” is still here - but I am less wedded to that thought-stream. And when I go to the awareness, it is there.
It feels... really natural, and really different from before. There is an ease, without constantly believing the thought-stream as reflection of "how I'm doing." Okay, really, I could say it is a big Lightening Up.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I had sort of prepped for this for several years... getting used to the ideas around this (especially through having many talks with an awake person who I am very close to, and reading Jed McKenna) all of which helped topple barriers... but it wasn't totally real, I didn't really know it in experience.
Knowing no separation between seer/seeing/seen was a big one – really having that awareness and letting it in. I couldn’t deny it, even though to the ever-ready “rational” mind it made no sense. Seeing clearly that it was true, above and beyond and around the mind, was huge – it meant that from now on, I would be able to see all separations are false. And that I would be able to trust direct experience instead of the mind. I laughed a lot, and cried too. I felt it - yet I also knew it wasn't actually big at all, and that was part of the laughter.
In the last week, getting that I got it. Recognizing that the mystery could be the mystery - not necessary for my mind to understand it, before seeing it was so.

Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in life? Do you make anything happen?

No, “I” do not decide, intend, choose, or control events in life. “I” make nothing happen. This was a sticking point in the dialogue – as it certainly seems, to the mind, like it is doing an awful lot of deciding &etc., - but as I said above, there is comfort now with the reality that things simply happen – and that what chooses and how choices happen is a mystery.

Please give some examples from your experience.

More and more, I notice that "I" am not paying attention, and things are just happening. (Food keeps being eaten, a game with a young person continues, this letter keeps getting written...) Like, this noticing will happen in the middle of it.

Anything to add?

I don't think so...

I am very grateful for your guidance, Pete. You clearly have a lot of experience, and I appreciate your clarity.

Love,
Belinda

[moondog]

Hi Belinda,

Thanks for your replies. They are a real joy for me to read.

I'll now forward them to the other guides. It's quite common for them to put forward questions or points for absolute clarification.

I'll let you know as soon as I've heard from them; it sometimes takes a day or so. It's probably best to keep checking now and again, if at all possible, to keep things moving.

Apart from one on LU, our 'aftercare' groups are run through Facebook so, if you have a Facebook account, please send me a PM with the address. If you don't have a FaceBook account I would certainly recommend you sign up for one, even with a false name, in order to participate in these groups.

Love, Pete