Looking for a guide

[Kason42]

"Who" would be the owner of thought, no i cannot see an owner. Theres a body thats breathing, walking, seeing, thinking, feeling, etc.

In direct reality thats all there is.

[Damon Kamda]

"

Who" would be the owner of thought, no i cannot see an owner. Theres a body thats breathing, walking, seeing, thinking, feeling, etc.

In direct reality thats all there is

Yet something is not clear yet....

There is still an unchecked assumption- a subtle, hidden belief.
A conceptual or sensory knot to be unraveled.

Let's see if we can identify this.

When I tell you that there is no you at all, anywhere, in any shape, way or form, nor has there ever been.
When you read that and ponder it- what comes up? What feelings come up?

[Kason42]

The mind has been conditioned with thoughts which are concepts which formed throughout the lifetime of this body. It operates based on those thoughts and concepts and forms belief.

Money is just a concept. Business is a concept too. Inside the concept of business money has meaning. It's all like a game. Money is a concept of that game. More money, you win. In reality there is no meaning to any of it, they are all concepts of the mind which were formed or conditioned from experience throughout the lifetime of this body.

The thought of I is a concept too. It has meaning in certain games, but in reality those games and that I have no meaning. They are all concepts of mind just like the above example.

These words that are being typed are symbols created by mind since the time that the ability to think showed up in a human who might have looked at a rock, formed a thought of seperation and said ROCK...lol. Experience through concept through symbols formed by mind is being written write now.

There is nothing to hold onto because experience by nature changes and will never not.

Awareness of it all seems to not change, but is not personal. It just is. It is not I.

I is thought...no more.

Whoa.

This body, thought, experience, is in no way separate from the universe itself and anything in it. All of which is constantly changing.

[Kason42]

To answer your question above.

When I tell you that there is no you at all, anywhere, in any shape, way or form, nor has there ever been.
When you read that and ponder it- what comes up? What feelings come up?

Feeling in my stomach came and thoughts came.

Then it hit. I is thought. No more. Never actually existed as anything else.

[Damon Kamda]

Ding ding!

How does it feel to be liberated?

[Kason42]

It feels the same as before. Peaceful though knowing that there's no thing for negative emotions and thought streams to stick to. Liberating lol.

There is still temporary belief in the thought sometimes, but there's quickly a oh yea it's just thought. I can see it being gradual though.

[Kason42]

By gradual: if there was this belief for so long, I can see the belief still coming up during times of extreme emotion such as anger. But soon after, it is recognized as just thought and moves on. Who is it recognized by? No one, it just is.

[Damon Kamda]

Wonderful!

By gradual: if there was this belief for so long, I can see the belief still coming up during times of extreme emotion such as anger. But soon after, it is recognized as just thought and moves on. Who is it recognized by? No one, it just is.

Of course it does, and it will continue to do so, surely. It's like a fan that keeps on turning even when it's turned off- it may take some time for its momentum to slow down. And even then... this isn't really about getting rid of certain thoughts. It's about seeing through the story woven by thought altogether.

Seems to me you might be ready for our "final questions".That doesn't mean you should stop asking questions of course, hehehe. So if you could take some time to ponder these questions and allow the words to flow freely, it will allow us to get a good picture of where you're at. Thanks!!!

These are the questions:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

[Kason42]

1) Self exists, but only as thought. There was never an entity only the thought of one.

2)
Originally there was only a body experiencing. The mind was conditioned by others through societies concepts, to have thoughts and label things as I, and experience such as seeing as being seen by I. At some point, these thoughts formed belief and were no longer seen as thoughts. The I was born.

Right now, sounds are happening, painful sensations are happening, itch sensations are happening, thoughts are happening and disappearing, fingers are typing the content of those thoughts as they come. Basically a lot is happening right now, but no thing is behind them making them happen. Experience in it's many forms is appearing and disappearing.

3)
Not much has changed. There is a slight bit of peace.

Often thoughts of doubt or this can't be it come, probably based on expectations I had before starting this journey. Sometimes when these thoughts come, the belief comes back, but it only takes a second of looking to realize again, these are all thoughts.

In a crowd of people, thoughts still come that people are looking at "me" and "judging," but like above, the second I'm away from the situation, and take a look, it is seen that it was all thought, again.

4)
I don't remember the last bit that pushed me over. I can say that seeing that there was no decider behind decisions such as turning the volume down on the radio, or speeding up in the car, was the biggest obstacle. When it was seen that there was no thing making these decisions, just decisions, or events happening- that was probably the last bit.

5)
Events just happen. Picking a food, tv show, calling someone, etc. they all just happen. They happen based on decisions made by the mind through a lifetime of conditioning and memory of experience.

6)
Not at the moment, except to say thank you so much for guiding me.

[Damon Kamda]

Thanks, Kason.

I've asked some of my colleagues here to take a look at our thread to see if they have some questions.

Here's one:

Two things caught my attention: "there was only a body experiencing" and "The mind was conditioned by others; decisions made by the mind". Is the body that experiences? Is there a mind? Is anything happening to a mind or is/can the mind make anything?

[Kason42]

The body itself is just a body, at least in concept. In reality it just is. Its not owned or controlled by a controller. It is not my body. Thoughts just label it that way. Thoughts are not owned by a thinker. They appear and dissapear. There can be belief that all of this has an owner, but that belief would not have a believer it would just be a belief. An experience.

I think i meant that the meanings behing the noises we make or words were products of conditioning from the time we were babies until now. There is nothing real behind the noise made when green is said. But what it points to is understood because the mind was conditioned to label the leaves on a tree green. Do thoughts have the ability to do anything or make anything. No. The concept of mind is a memory bank of experiences, concepts. Thoughts come out of there and appear and dissappear. They are just thoughts happening no thinker or minder or anything. All is happening with no puppeteer.

[Kason42]

Question-

There is no i in any sense and everything is just happening automatically. How does someone who drinks incessantly or any other kind of addictive mind pattern, stop. How are mind patterns ended if its all happening to no one? Pain is real and thoughts that one wants to end pain are real. But if theres no doer how does it happen

[Damon Kamda]

Thanks for your answers- the LU confirmation machine behind the scenes has confirmed you... ;-) This means that your username will shortly turn blue and you'll have access to some new forum groups soon. You'll also get some facebook links.

There is no i in any sense and everything is just happening automatically. How does someone who drinks incessantly or any other kind of addictive mind pattern, stop. How are mind patterns ended if its all happening to no one? Pain is real and thoughts that one wants to end pain are real. But if theres no doer how does it happen

If there is no doer, how does anything happen at all?

The only possible answer I could give you to this is in this movie scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EEIeH7ymwA

(it's from a movie called "Tree of Life").