Guide needed for Gate excursion

[Paulo]

Nothing is really hearing sounds, it is happening by itself without any listener.

Exactly, sounds occur and there is awareness of them, no 'I' there seperate from the experience listening in.

But in my case my ego believes it's doing the listening.

When you say 'my' ego, is there a 'you' that has an 'ego'? Are these two seperate things?

What are you referring to in direct experience when you say 'ego'?

Love, Paulo.

[Choppy]

When you say 'my' ego, is there a 'you' that has an 'ego'? Are these two seperate things?

What are you referring to in direct experience when you say 'ego'?

I know intellectually that there is just awareness, but the ego is still there everyday labeling and commenting, I've become increasingly more aware of these thoughts and I'm able to see through them most of the time. But the ego still has strength left. I wouldn't say it is "my" ego as in i own it, but it's still here.

It hasn't completely lost its grip yet.

[Paulo]

Thanks Alex,

I hear a lot of lamenting about something called an 'ego', but you still haven't explained what you mean by ego -

What are you referring to in direct experience when you say 'ego'?

Explain it to me in your own words as if I was a five year old.

Paulo :-)

[Choppy]

In direct experience i view the ego as the mind, with its constant need for chatter and commentary about reality. The thoughts that occur that wants to put a "me" on most things. The ego is just a collection of thoughts that vary in intensity and strength. When awakening occurs I've understood that unnecessary thoughts disappear, and only useful thinking remains? Is it always an instant experience, or does it also happen gradually?

[Paulo]

Thank you for your prompt reply,

In direct experience i view the ego as the mind, with its constant need for chatter and commentary about reality. The thoughts that occur that wants to put a "me" on most things. The ego is just a collection of thoughts that vary in intensity and strength.

[I'm not sure if Xain had pointed you to Neil's article on direct experience, but I'll put it here just in case :-) - http://www.liberationunleashed.com/Arti ... ience.html ]

So you describe the ego as a collection of thoughts.

What is observing those thoughts happening?

When awakening occurs I've understood that unnecessary thoughts disappear, and only useful thinking remains? Is it always an instant experience, or does it also happen gradually?

What we do here is look at the illusion of self, that's all. This is completely unique to each person. Reality is as you find it, and does not necessarily correspond to any expectations. Put aside those expectations for the moment (you can always take them up later), and just keep looking at what IS in the HERE and NOW, and everything will unfold smoothly.

Paulo.

[Choppy]

What is observing those thoughts happening?
Paulo.

You seem like a really active guide, and a really nice one as well. Thank you for guiding me.

Nothing is observing the thoughts, they're just arising and disappearing.

What we do here is look at the illusion of self, that's all. This is completely unique to each person. Reality is as you find it, and does not necessarily correspond to any expectations. Put aside those expectations for the moment (you can always take them up later), and just keep looking at what IS in the HERE and NOW, and everything will unfold smoothly.

Well explained, I'll leave all expectations aside and just focus on the current moment.

Would it be possible to get some guidance, over for example skype with you?

[Paulo]

You seem like a really active guide, and a really nice one as well. Thank you for guiding me.

You're welcome, it's my absolute pleasure to guide you, and an honour to share part of your journey with you.

Would it be possible to get some guidance, over for example skype with you?

You're doing fine as you are, just continue to stay connected here regularly. Just be here, now, there's nowhere else to go, this is it.

Nothing is observing the thoughts, they're just arising and disappearing.

Very nice, you can see that thoughts arise, stay for awhile, and then fade as the focus rests on other thoughts. There is no 'I' there, like an air traffic controller, observing them and directing them, it all happens on automatic.

The ego is just a collection of thoughts that vary in intensity and strength.

Look at these thoughts you describe as the 'ego', are they different in some way from other thoughts, or do they too come into awareness, stay a little moment, and then fade?

Here's a little exercise that may help -

Choose a quiet moment when you will not be disturbed. Sit somewhere comfortable and focus on the sound of your breath. Just that, the breath, nothing else. Hear the breath come in and go out. Don't try to breath in a certain pattern, just allow the body breathe.

Continue this for 10-15 minutes, and during that time allow thoughts to arise as they do, and just watch them. Don't become involved in the story, watch them like you would watch a tv show. If you find attention wandering, or getting 'caught' in the drama of a thought, just return your awareness to the breath and carry on.

[The breath can be used as a tool to centre you in the moment. As you saw from the 'listening exercise' the breath is happening in the here and now, focusing on it will bring you out of 'sticky' thoughts and back into reality. It's a sound that we always have with us, every moment of everyday, so gives us an opportunity every moment to be in the moment, by just listening]

Paulo.

[Choppy]

Look at these thoughts you describe as the 'ego', are they different in some way from other thoughts, or do they too come into awareness, stay a little moment, and then fade?

The ego thoughts differ as they have an 'I', 'Me', 'My' attached to it, then there's thoughts about the past, thoughts about the future, also thoughts labeling current experience. All thoughts arise, stay for a short while, and disappear. Although some thoughts come a lot more often. And some thoughts are "sticky", which can be troublesome.

[Paulo]

Thanks Alex, you're making good progress so far, and this posting is an important one -

The ego thoughts differ as they have an 'I', 'Me', 'My' attached to it

Consider if the 'ego' thoughts actually have a separate being called 'I' attached to them, or is the 'ego', 'I', or 'me' just a label FOR thoughts ABOUT an 'I' or 'me'?

In regard to thoughts labelled 'my', think of other items that might be called 'my' - for example, 'my shoes'.

Would the shoes be any less shoes, or change in any way if we removed the word 'my' from the phrase 'my shoes'?

Does putting the label 'my' on your shoes make them different or more special then all the other shoes of that brand and style that are made in a factory in their hundreds of thousands?

And some thoughts are "sticky", which can be troublesome.

Yes, I can relate to what you say - some thoughts can almost be suffocating, especially those with a high emotional content. They too arise, stay, and fade away eventually - although it can seem like hell when they're being experienced.

One little 'first aid' trick is to use the breath (as in my previous posting) to move awareness back to the here and now. If you have more time and space, just watch those thoughts as if you were watching a tv show - at a distance, and in this way you will see the pattern of arising, staying, and fading. All thoughts follow this pattern, no matter what the content or intensity - be assured of at least that.

Paulo.

[Choppy]

Consider if the 'ego' thoughts actually have a separate being called 'I' attached to them, or is the 'ego', 'I', or 'me' just a label FOR thoughts ABOUT an 'I' or 'me'?

The thoughts doesn't have a separate being attached to them, the I/MY/ME attached to them is the story of me as a concept, with its past failures and anxiety for the future.

Would the shoes be any less shoes, or change in any way if we removed the word 'my' from the phrase 'my shoes'?

No, the shoes would be unchanged.

Does putting the label 'my' on your shoes make them different or more special then all the other shoes of that brand and style that are made in a factory in their hundreds of thousands?

They're still the same, nothing changes.

[Choppy]

And thanks for the tip about breathing, I do usually try to feel parts of the body when difficult thoughts appear.

[Paulo]

The thoughts doesn't have a separate being attached to them, the I/MY/ME attached to them is the story of me as a concept, with its past failures and anxiety for the future.

Very nice indeed Alex. Likewise, when you watch a tv show or a movie, there is no real being attached to the images of the characters you see on screen playing out their storyline.

Recall a movie that really moved you, either to laughter or to sadness. When you were watching the movie it may have seemed that the characters were real. You felt for their situation, maybe feeling happy when they found love, or perhaps tension when they were being chased by the villains. When they were caught or trapped you may have started planning how they might escape, you even may have become frightened when there was a monster chasing them.

But change the tv channel, or stop the movie playing and where have the characters gone? Where is the tension, suspense, romance? All gone, it never really existed. Can you see how easily our awareness can be fooled into thinking something is real that isn't?

Look at thoughts in a similar way – we feel the ups and downs of the character called ‘I’ in the thoughts. But switch that thought, or focus on your breathing, and where has the character gone?

Did it ever really exist in reality or was it just an experience that seemed real when it was being played out in thought?

Consider this idea, test it out if you can (watch a movie or tv show you’ve felt passionate about in the past), and turn it off when you become conscious that awareness has become ‘stuck’ to the story. Then ask those simple questions to yourself – where have the characters gone? Were they ever real? Then do the same next time a ‘sticky’ thought happens.

Share your experience if you wish.

No, the shoes would be unchanged.
They're still the same, nothing changes.

Now look at those thoughts that may be considered ‘my’ thoughts in the same way.

Would removing the label ‘my’ from them change those thoughts in any way?

Paulo.

[Paulo]

I'm keeping this in a separate post as it's a little off topic, but I feel you can benefit -

And thanks for the tip about breathing, I do usually try to feel parts of the body when difficult thoughts appear.

Another top tip for shifting awareness out of thought is to narrate everything you’re doing (I’m talking internal dialogue here, although out loud could be funny). For example ... ‘Walking to the fridge; opening fridge with left hand; looking for snacks; stomach rumbles; feel attracted to last night’s leftovers of Chinese food; take food out of fridge, close fridge; eat food with fork’ ... You get the idea.

Do realise however, that the ‘sticky’ thoughts are happening in the moment too. Switching attention like this is just a 'first aid' technique for taking a little break from them when you’re particularly attached or overwhelmed. In my experience, when you see through the illusion of self, you will recognise that there is no separate ‘I’ associated with these thoughts and stories, and they can be allowed to just come and go as they please. This of course can take some time after the illusion of self has been seen through, but seeing through the illusion is a good first step.

I hope all that made sense :-)

[Choppy]

Would removing the label ‘my’ from them change those thoughts in any way?

I'm in the middle of moving, so i might not be able to answer as often I'd like.

Despite removing the label 'my' it still arises and disappear, it appears as if nothing changed. I suppose those thoughts become less interesting for the ego, and they don't have the same intensity or pull.

[Choppy]

Thoughts do however not bother me much since i had that profound experience in the shower. I'll try your method whenever i encounter a "hard" thought.