The Gate

Bob, I'm sorry for your loss.
Yes, of course, reply when possible.

With Love

Hello Nenad,

Thank you for your condolences Nenad… Sorry been dealing with the funeral which was today I have responded in bits and pieces the past couple days saving it while I deal with family…So thanks for understanding.

Yes, there is life. Does it need any energy to be lived? What is energy anyway?


No life needs no energy to be lived... I have sat with this question and I am not sure why I use the word energy but I see now that thoughts appear from nowhere and return the same way... And life is just happening no energy no one in control of it all:) But I see that before all the thoughts and sensations is this steady unchanging awareness that is aware of ALL!


Well, look into this and other stuff you are not sure about (re-read the thread to see where you mention "I don't know" or "I'm not sure" or wherever you didn't give an answer you are 100% sure about).

I did review the thread and you’re so right I will answer all questions as I see it from this point on...thanks for pointing it out.


ABBR02 wrote:
Tell more about this. How can action happen 'on thought'? Answer in detail.

You didn't answer this. Look at this closely.

As I sat with this response it was clear to me that action can't happen on thought... Thoughts come up and this awareness I am before all thoughts and sensations sees everything and yet is not the controller or the doer of any action of these thoughts! Thoughts and sensations are seen but that’s it beyond that there is no action...

ABBR02 wrote:
At this point I believe that there is only now this very moment...

Don't believe anything. LOOK to see if it's possible that there is nothing but now. This dream analogy might help:

In the opening instant of a dream you find yourself speeding along a highway towards the airport, because you're late for your holiday flight, because your wife couldn't find her passport.

Now you will notice that this is just the opening instant of the dream, yet it contains a whole "history" of being a person who is an adult, and married to a woman who left her passport behind, etc, etc, and it contains "memories" of having the drama with the lost passport, and it has a whole imaginary future too, in the flight and the holiday.

Do you see the analogy that I'm trying to draw?

Life happens with all its drama and emotion and thinking and concepts and beliefs and but what I am is before all of this and I am untouched by this story full of all the drama... Just like the dream it's not real none of it!


Yes, and can a thought about yesterday know anything about yesterday?
Can the thought know anything about 'previous thoughts'? Can it remember anything? Are there previous thoughts?
Look at this closely.

What I find now is thoughts are just thoughts and a thought about yesterday knows nothing about yesterday as well as knowing anything about a previous thought...And right there are no previous thoughts!!!! Thoughts do not tie together what so ever and as fast as a thought comes up it is gone and never to be seen or felt again.

ABBR02 wrote:There is only this moment.

How does it feel to see this?
Do you see the implications of this insight?
It feels freeing to know that there is no past and future but only now! I know thoughts about the past or the future only happen now and are thoughts only thoughts… The implications of this insight is in truth there fear seems to not be present and if it’s seen it is noticed and is gone…Thoughts are just seen in this moment and disappear…The pressures surrounding life as Bob are being seen as just another thought that surfaces and drifts away…

ABBR02 wrote:As I sit here responding to your questions frustration again comes up.

What is this frustration? Look at it deeply. What is frustrated? Take a close look at this.
The frustration is a thought that comes to this character Bob “just like Bob himself is thought” and says drop this attempt at proving I don’t exist and all this thought stuff! It’s thoughts of “I (Bob) am real” and you are your body and mind! And these are your thoughts and on and on it goes!!!! But as I sit and as I look I become clearer and clearer that NO there is no one anywhere to be found… And then frustration creeps back in with this same sort of thought message!!! And that is the frustration Nenad.

Yes, it does. I agree. Looking at information you gained from books and pod-casts isn't recommended. Instead look at naked, raw experience. What is there right here right now, with as little conceptual abstractions, as possible?
Look when eating, dressing up, walking... - experience what whatever shows up without labeling it.
I have been doing just that the past couple of days especially at the funeral today Nenad. It is so clear that there is no one here! There is seeing, hearing and many thoughts but I cannot find a me anywhere when looked for:)
ABBR02 wrote:It seems even though there is no solid me

Is there some subtle 'me'? Energetic 'me' maybe? Spiritual 'me'? Are you awareness?
Nenad there is no subtle me, no energetic me, no spiritual me plainly there is no me to be found period! But yes there is awareness, this unchanging steady awareness of it and I am that awareness before any thoughts feelings and sensations…All of it is seen heard tasted smelled but no doer of anything can be found when looked for…

ABBR02 wrote:I look the story of this character is strong and someplace is bought into! I feel stuck and frustrated.

What looks at the story? Bought into by what? What feels stuck and frustrated? Please don't say "I don't know". I'm not looking for some absolute truth. Give me your best shot (when you are 100% sure that it's your best shot).
What looks at the story is just a though itself! It again is this Bob (thought) that surfaces and says oh look out for this don’t buy into that (all more thoughts)!!! Frustration sets into the Bob Character which again is just thought no one found!!!! It all circles back to this ME which is truly just a thought buying into more thoughts about a character with a name Bob who when looked for can’t be found….It’s all thoughts leading to more thoughts and this Bob guy getting frustrated and angry (which are just more thoughts) No Bob, no Bob is found when looked for these thoughts are seen but there is no one seeing…Crazy when you put words to this!

ABBR02 wrote:Can you help me understand from the work we have done where I am

You tell me :) Read though this thread and look what is clear and what doubts are still here.
I am clearer today than I have been in this entire process and the need to ask if these responses lead you to believe the same have really lightened up… The only doubts I have seem to be enough trust when the thoughts about this character Bob surface and thoughts upon thoughts of your never going to get this, give up this crazy venture….BUT Nenad I can say with confidence these are just more thoughts and there is no ME only thoughts of a me!

ABBR02 wrote:and why/how I keep slipping into this character role so easily?

You obviously have some expectations about how this is supposed to look like and when they
are not met thought says: "I'm slipping into the character role". So what are those expectations? Be 100% honest.
At this point in this process I have no expectations because even expectations are just another thought! I see that there is no doer that acts on these thoughts and when it seems as I do see a “me” (doer) I quickly see that that is just a thought too! So there is no character named Bob only thoughts of this Bob and that’s all any of this has ever been is thoughts on top of thoughts and to look even deeper there is no thinker of these thoughts to be found! There is a huge letting go that seems to be surfacing and even that seems like a thought??? Yikes!!!

Nenad this was a super long one this time wow!!! I thank you from the bottom of my heart for reading and responding to my thread to date! You are incredible :) I look forward to your response!
Love:)

Hi Bob!

Very nice looking!

No life needs no energy to be lived... I have sat with this question and I am not sure why I use the word energy but I see now that thoughts appear from nowhere and return the same way... And life is just happening no energy no one in control of it all:)

Good.

But I see that before all the thoughts and sensations is this steady unchanging awareness that is aware of ALL!

What is awareness? In what way is it before anything? How is before experienced?

As I sat with this response it was clear to me that action can't happen on thought...

right.

What I find now is thoughts are just thoughts and a thought about yesterday knows nothing about yesterday as well as knowing anything about a previous thought...And right there are no previous thoughts!!!! Thoughts do not tie together what so ever and as fast as a thought comes up it is gone and never to be seen or felt again.

Good!!

It feels freeing to know that there is no past and future but only now! I know thoughts about the past or the future only happen now and are thoughts only thoughts… The implications of this insight is in truth there fear seems to not be present and if it’s seen it is noticed and is gone…Thoughts are just seen in this moment and disappear…The pressures surrounding life as Bob are being seen as just another thought that surfaces and drifts away…

:))

I have been doing just that the past couple of days especially at the funeral today Nenad. It is so clear that there is no one here! There is seeing, hearing and many thoughts but I cannot find a me anywhere when looked for:)

Good :)

Nenad there is no subtle me, no energetic me, no spiritual me plainly there is no me to be found period! But yes there is awareness, this unchanging steady awareness of it and I am that awareness before any thoughts feelings and sensations…All of it is seen heard tasted smelled but no doer of anything can be found when looked for…

Can there be awareness without anything to be aware of?
Is awareness in any way personal?
Is it your awareness?

What looks at the story is just a though itself!

Can a thought look?

It all circles back to this ME which is truly just a thought buying into more thoughts about a character with a name Bob who when looked for can’t be found…

Can a thought buy into anything?
Can it believe anything?

Is it a thought that gets frustrated or a thought about something getting frustrated?

At this point in this process I have no expectations because even expectations are just another thought! I see that there is no doer that acts on these thoughts and when it seems as I do see a “me” (doer) I quickly see that that is just a thought too! So there is no character named Bob only thoughts of this Bob and that’s all any of this has ever been is thoughts on top of thoughts and to look even deeper there is no thinker of these thoughts to be found! There is a huge letting go that seems to be surfacing and even that seems like a thought??? Yikes!!!

:)))

Love :)

Hi Nenad,
ABBR02 wrote:But I see that before all the thoughts and sensations is this steady unchanging awareness that is aware of ALL!

What is awareness? In what way is it before anything? How is before experienced?
The only way I can explain this awareness is behind everything thoughts, sensations this entire play of what’s going on is an aware alert unchanging presence (feels like the wrong word) that is the seer and hearer of all of this but not the doer, reactor of any of it..In fact the only thing it is is awareness with no emotional or feeling investment whatever! This at its bare essence seems to be who I am ever since I remember!!! And it is the same now as when I four or twenty or fifty-nine…When looked at it hasn’t changed and never will…You ask how is before experienced? Wow…it’s something that’s seen when I do this looking??? It is as if it’s seen to be before all thoughts and roles played in this life… It’s just a felt knowing when looked at…I swear it’s just seen…Ok this is sooooo hard to describe Nenad? Words seem to give this appearance that there is a Bob talking about all this but there is no me!

ABBR02 wrote:Nenad there is no subtle me, no energetic me, no spiritual me plainly there is no me to be found period! But yes there is awareness, this unchanging steady awareness of it and I am that awareness before any thoughts feelings and sensations…All of it is seen heard tasted smelled but no doer of anything can be found when looked for…

Can there be awareness without anything to be aware of?
Absolutely there can be awareness without anything to be aware of…It is just this presence that maybe aware or not but it is before this whole show or story of life… I have heard it described as the white movie screen behind the movie that’s playing…No investment in the movie in fact the movie is just that characters playing movie roles (not real) but behind that is the unchanging unaffected white screen that allows this movie to be seen…

Is awareness in any way personal?
No not at all! It is the untouchable, unknowable presence that a personal “me” (thought) is not in any way part of…Yikes does that even make sense? Thoughts and all that comes up are not any part of this awareness...It’s the background of all…I am going in circles it seems trying to explain this…
Is it your awareness?
No it is not my awareness yet it’s who I am it’s who we all are…I am not the Bob character and it’s thoughts, beliefs sensations ect….It’s all thoughts at a me level…This what I am talking about is the space that allows everything and even this doesn’t explain it clearly.

ABBR02 wrote:What looks at the story is just a though itself!

Can a thought look?
No way a thought can’t look…It clearly is just that a thought nothing real or solid about it…No truth in thoughts and really no one thinking the thoughts...So a solid NO to thoughts looking:)

ABBR02 wrote: It all circles back to this ME which is truly just a thought buying into more thoughts about a character with a name Bob who when looked for can’t be found…

Can a thought buy into anything?
No a thought cannot buy into anything…It is just a thought and thoughts are not real...

Can it believe anything?
No there is on one to be found to believe anything belief is a thought and thoughts are not real

Is it a thought that gets frustrated or a thought about something getting frustrated?
It is exactly that Nenad…it is a thought about something getting frustrated…Wow so true! And it’s just another thought…And no one to get frustrated anyways:)

Ok Nenad I am finding that more and more of my day is getting spent being as aware as I can with my thoughts and movements and the more it seems I do this the clearer it is becoming how thoughts surface and reactions to thoughts may happen and that’s ok too when seen it’s just another thought and there is no doer of any of this! If as I said this is looked at:)
One other thing I want to share with you is that my wife myself and my seven year old daughter are going to be going on vacation leaving this Sunday morning through next Friday spending the week at a remote resort on the Minnesota, Canadian border and we will have no internet connection all week:( I am looking forward to it yet disappointed because I so much want to keep at this. I hope we can still trade responses one or two more times before we leave…Please help me key in on some thing that can be helpful while away in the wilderness to stay connected to this process?

I continue to be so thankful for all you are doing to help me along Nenad. Words just can’t describe how grateful I am!!!

Love,
Bob

Hi again,

Please help me key in on some thing that can be helpful while away in the wilderness to stay connected to this process?

Yes, this sums it up:

The only way I can explain this awareness is behind everything thoughts, sensations this entire play of what’s going on is an aware alert unchanging presence (feels like the wrong word) that is the seer and hearer of all of this but not the doer, reactor of any of it..

It is clear that there is no controller, reactor and such (witch is a huge insight!) but there is still a belief in hearer, seer and such.
Furthermore:

This at its bare essence seems to be who I am ever since I remember!!!

Do you see how similar it is to say: "who I am ever since I remember" and to say: "I am a person"?
Isn't that the essence of the belief in a person: the idea that there is some entity that is consistent throughout the time and that you are that entity?
Is there any entity that is constant throughout time?
In this regard, what is the difference between saying "I am a person" and "I am awareness"?

You are imagining that there are two things: awareness and objects to awareness. Check it:
Can you separate a thought from awareness of the thought? If so, where is the dividing line?
Can you separate a feeling from awareness of the feeling? If so, where is the dividing line?
Can you separate a sound from awareness of the sound? If so, where is the dividing line?

Great looking so far, and let's go all the way down! Is there a seer and hearer?

Enjoy your vacation, I hope we'll exchange more messages before that :)

Love:)

Hi Nenad,

ABBR02 wrote:The only way I can explain this awareness is behind everything thoughts, sensations this entire play of what’s going on is an aware alert unchanging presence (feels like the wrong word) that is the seer and hearer of all of this but not the doer, reactor of any of it..

It is clear that there is no controller, reactor and such (witch is a huge insight!) but there is still a belief in hearer, seer and such.
As I sit with this I know that there is seeing, hearing ect… But it is also clear that there is no one seeing and hearing and touching ect…It is a mystery there is nothing and no one to be found. That is what I am sure and solid with.

ABBR02 wrote:This at its bare essence seems to be who I am ever since I remember!!!

Do you see how similar it is to say: "who I am ever since I remember" and to say: "I am a person"?
Oh yes I sure do! Yet I know that there is no me!!! There is no person…words are so hard because truly I am not a person as I described it above!

Isn't that the essence of the belief in a person: the idea that there is some entity that is consistent throughout the time and that you are that entity?
As I read my above response the answer is yes:( But again as I sit and look it is clear that there is no person, no me…No entity to be found.

Is there any entity that is constant throughout time?
Clearly NO never was!

In this regard, what is the difference between saying "I am a person" and "I am awareness"?
When looked at deeply there is no difference!!! Wow that just makes this a little clearer Nenad… I am not this awareness I describe but there seems to be awareness there is seeing and hearing but no doer of them!

You are imagining that there are two things: awareness and objects to awareness. Check it:
Yes again as you break this down it is again an eye opener! There are no objects to awareness clearly it all just is and even that isn’t explaining this! I again say there is only awareness…

Can you separate a thought from awareness of the thought? If so, where is the dividing line?
No can’t be done thoughts clearly are that just thoughts coming up from nowhere from no one to no one. And to answer this question would be another thought…

Can you separate a feeling from awareness of the feeling? If so, where is the dividing line?
Same answer it’s just feeling no feeler no doer just feeling…

Can you separate a sound from awareness of the sound? If so, where is the dividing line?
Ok its clear there are just these things coming up and no for no one to no one just thoughts, feelings, sound ect…

Great looking so far, and let's go all the way down! Is there a seer and hearer?
No this is really getting clearer that there is just seeing, hearing, touching, feeling ect happening that’s all no doer, no controller and NO reactor:)


Love:)

Good, Bob,

Do you feel you have seen through the illusion of 'I'?
Any doubts?

Do you feel ready for what is called 'final questions'?

With Love

Hi Nenad,

Do you feel you have seen through the illusion of 'I'?
I do Nenad…It is very clear that the I is an illusion very clear:) I have seen thought it.

Any doubts?
I have no doubts…truly have been amazed yet no one to be amazed…

Do you feel ready for what is called 'final questions'?
I am ready for the final questions!!!

Thank you thank you thank you Nenad!!!!!!!
Much Love,
Bob

Here they are:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

With Love :)

Hello Nenad.... Sorry I am going to have to respond after our vacation ran out of time to respond before leaving:( I am most anxious to respond! It will be the first thing I do upon my return... Thank you so much for all you have done:)

Sure, Bob, have a nice time with family. Thanks very much for the honest looking in this thread, and looking forward to your answers after coming back :)

Hi Nenad,
So sorry it’s taken me so long to get back to you… our week’s vacation was extended a couple of days! That was a good thing as the weather was great and it was a very relaxing time being away from all computers, phones and TV…
I am most anxious to respond to the list of questions you sent me before I left.

Here they are:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No there is not a separate self, me or I now or ever… As I have worked with you and continually tried to find an entity it is clear there isn’t now or ever been a “me”. I found myself on vacation looking most of all my days up there! Anger, laughter, hunger, viewing nature, sitting by the water, hiking on nature trails, feelings of being tired, hearing the birds or waves crashing on shore…all of this was happening and clearly there was no one in control doing anything…It was all just happening:)



2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of a separate self is nothing but a THOUGHT! The me, I, self is all a thought…And when I looked and tried to find this self/me I couldn’t find anything that this thought portrayed as a me when looked at! It really was an aha moment when I first saw this clearly! I now see what was identified as this me was nothing but a thought and the many many thoughts that followed that led to this so called me/separate self illusion…nothing but a thought there is no me!!!! YES… Now it is seen that life is lived in this body by no one, anger, hunger, pain, joy, tiredness they all just happen and there is no I that they are happening too:) Life lives itself with all its ups and downs but there is no me in the mix never was…This is too simple! How was it overlooked? Or hidden? It was the illusion of a separate self believed in…

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels light and freeing…Also there is lots of space and life happens from this open space. The body moves and life is lived but with such a lighter more open and freeing way about it ALL! Before I started this dialogue there was a believed in “me”…And thoughts were not seen as just that thoughts! The ‘I’ was a product of the thoughts and all the thoughts that followed with this “me” attached to them. The vacation I just returned from was life being lived no me to be found…Sensations, feeling, movement all were part of a body/mind but there wasn’t a Bob to be found without fail when looked for:)

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I am not sure but I do know after a dialogue with you Nenad I felt lot’s of frustration and had expressed that to you and you said that was good and to just allow it to be…I remember going for a walk and for the first time I really saw that there was no “me”…To that point I understood it intellectually I thought but just couldn’t connect with it…Then it was seen that truly a me was just a thought that put the label Bob to it! Yes there is a body/mind but there is no me anywhere to be found now or ever…It was an aha moment to have a clear understanding of what was being pointed to! I also remembered reading a piece that said the word “school” is a label for a building, students, books and teachers…And that rang so clear when the “I” was looked at using that analogy…

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

No to all of these, there is no one to decide, intend, choose or control events in life. Life is lived with no doer, controller or self/I life is lived…thoughts, seeing, sensations all happen to no one.
I do not cannot make anything happen the “me” is only a thought:) It is clear no me has to tell this body to breath, blink swallow ect… Life clearly happens….

6) Anything to add?

I feel free yet there is no one to be free! But life is now lighter for lack of better words. Seeing, feeling, touching and all that comes with these words simply happen and they happen to no one…There is joy and freedom in this understanding and again joy and freedom for whom? I’m thankful to you Nenad for how you have led me to look at this and stayed with me! I can never thank you enough…Please respond and ask for further clarification on what’s not clear?

Love:)
Bob

Hi Bob!

I'm glad you enjoyed vacation with family :)

Thank you for replies, they made me smile :) I'll ask other guides if they have any additional questions.

Before that: Is there anyone/anything looking to see if there is a separate self? If yes, what? If no, then what? How is looking happening?

Also, please give some examples of everyday situations in witch you used to assume you have a control and choice, and now it is clear that there is no control nor choice.

Thanks!

Wow Nenad thanks for the quick response!
I will respond to your questions below….thanks

Before that: Is there anyone/anything looking to see if there is a separate self? If yes, what? If no, then what? How is looking happening?

No there is no one looking to see if there is a separate self. I am not sure how this looking happens? The body/mind is real and the question is posed to look for the me, I, self and the looking happens and no “me” can be found…Just a functioning body/mind that life is living but it’s not ME….Along with this thoughts continue to come up and go away and there is no me, I or self to be found. As I respond the one thing I know to be clear is there is no me, the rest seems so much a mystery…And yet it’s so clear that seeing, feeling, touching, hearing ect happen!

Also, please give some examples of everyday situations in witch you used to assume you have a control and choice, and now it is clear that there is no control nor choice.

An example would be why can’t I get this the gate? I’ll never get this, I’m too slow, too old, too stuck in my ways!!! All of what I couldn’t do was started with I am this or I am that!!!! No I is found??? Thoughts surface but the thing that was discovered is who’s thoughts are they? Where is the “me” in this whole thing? In looking for a me no one was found…It was seen that the “me” was a thought all along…Crazy to write about!

Nenad, please do ask more questions if they are needed to confirm anything further :)

Love:)
Bob

Hi,

Good, thanks for replies :) I've asked other guides to take a look and ask additional questions.

In the meanwhile, take a look at this:

When there are two possibilities, e.g. when taking a walk: to turn back and come back home or to continue walking, to sit on a bench or not, to stand up or not, to turn left or right...when eating: to eat more or to stop eating...How is choice experienced in everyday situations like this ones? How does it happen?

Love :)