Thank you for guiding me

[Bowzie]

Hi Vimalasara

...when we see that there is no separate self we can go into cycles of doubt, cycles of depression. doubt and a degree of depression can be normal, it's like the grieving process of loss. we can grieve the loss of something we have clung on for dear life, the loss of something that we have defended all our life only to find out that the self does not exist. But the wise grieve and move swiftly on.

Monday night, when I was in reflection and the crying, this is what I felt, the grief and loss.

what would it mean not to identify with doubt?

Not identifying with the stories of doubt, dropping the thoughts again, not being held back, would just leave things as they are and confidence in the seeing of that. Things as they are, being the playing out of experiences.

if you didn't Identify with doubt what could emerge?

Clarity with seeing what is, lack of confusion. Deepening. Earth-touching wisdom. "rid of the fear bred by it, and reaches clearest nirvana". More freedom because one isn't shackled to a restrictive view, idea, story of self.

what is doubt protecting?

Doubt protects the attachment to the illusion, it protects the belief in self. Causing confusion so that the belief in the fiction continues it stops me going deeper in to experience.

Are there any doubts at all about seeing through the illusion of the separate self? [\quote]

No

When the “I” has been seen through, fully and completely, what's left?

Everything else. Experiences arising and ceasing, thoughts, emotions, sensations, arising and ceasing, love and awareness.

hope you are feeling better another day off I hope? [\quote]

A bit better, but not much. I went back to work and really enjoyed my day. I do enjoy the work. A very peaceful but full day, there was no strong attachment to selfing, or any SJ at all. Just doing what needs to be done, responding to people when it arises. The weekend holds my sons first ever birthday party and then I'm going back with a friend to stay the night with my preceptor, it will be lovely to spend time with her. I will continue looking in to doubt. It is interesting the interplay of this process with sadhana.

With love
SJ x

[Detox]

Sj I am confident that you have clearly seen through the illusion of a separate self. When a client gets to this point there are a series of questions for you to answer. Once all eight questions are answered they are reviewed by three other guides for confirmation. I have listed the first thre for you to answer so as not to be to overwhelmed.

Here are the first three for you to reflect on and answer. With kindness Vimalasara

1) Is there a 'me' or 'you' or 'I' , at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? Can there ever be?


2) When you say "I", what in Experience are you referring to?


3) in Experience, is there an experiencer?
is it the body that experiences? Or is the body simply an experience?

[Bowzie]

Hi Vimalasara

Thank you for your questions. I have been feeling much gratitude for all your time and questions.

Is there a 'me' or 'you' or 'I' , at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? Can there ever be?

No. No self at all, anywhere in any way shape or form. Just a belief in an illusion, ideas attaching themselves to experiences. There was never any self, only belief in the idea or illusion. There can never be. How would that be?

When you say "I", what in Experience are you referring to?

Something that is not separate from the experiences, the selfing, the thoughts. All this collectively, emotion, body, feeling, thoughts. But no separate I, self. when I say I, it is a mundane label, which has no deeper meaning than that. There is an elaborate system set up, which is surrounded by beliefs, thought and view. It's all hiding the fact that it's all empty. There is nothing there!

in Experience, is there an experiencer?
is it the body that experiences? Or is the body simply an experience?

There is experience but no separate experiencer. The experiences play out in the awareness. The body experiences, but the mind has an idea of what the body experiences as well and labels that. I can see my body, touch my body, and experience my body, but this is also a label for my experience sometimes too. Sensations. But there is no separate experiencer or sensations of a separate self to be found.

With love
SJ x

[Detox]

Hi Sj thank you for your gratitude. it is mutual. Your process helps to keep my own practise alive and to be mindful of the illusory tricks. I can't take responsibility for these final questions as they are a standard set of questions everyone is asked once it becomes apparent that. They have clearly seen.

Great reading for the first three questions. here are the next three.

4) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.


5) How does it FEEL to See? describe in detail.


6) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it?



With kindness Vimalasara

[Bowzie]

Hey Vimalasara

I am back from a lovely time with Kalyanasri. I hope you are having a good weekend too.

4) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

From what I've seen, the experience occurs/happens/emerges, and then the selfing thoughts hook on to/ appropriate/saturate the experience, labelling that experience, ie pain, and further makes it 'my pain' and 'I am in pain'. The thought of I creates a story of me. This pain/the experience/energy being real, and then the labelling creating the delusion that the experience is mine/me and therefore that there must be a me to experience/experiencing. When does it start? I guess when conditions were being layed in early childhood, generally. But in the moment, it arises when there is experience to be hooked on to or appropriated.

5) How does it FEEL to See? describe in detail.

First it felt expansive, then I felt panic at the lack of control (I'm a bus going along, and no one is driving, there is no controller), then grief at the loss of this believe in self, then presence, love, experience of the flow of things. Still selfing, the thoughts of I, but no me underneath it all. It's like suddenly understanding how a magician did a clever trick. All is the same, but with a different perspective seeing.

6) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it?

It depends who they were! I'd probably tell them to read gate less gatecrashers! I'd ask them to find their experience of a separate self, and to look for it and to keep looking for it. , systematically in whatever their experience is. Drop the thoughts and stay with experience. where the thoughts come from? When the thoughts of self arise, where is "I"? I.e "where is the "I" that is curious about the illusion of self?"

With love
SJ x

[Detox]

HI Sj, glad you had a great time visiting - just of a weekend retreat with Padmadharani - on Radical Embrace -
So hear are the last three standard questions - looking forward to hearing from you Monday

7) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
8) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
9) Anything to add?

[Detox]

PS.... happy Monday -----

Also could you just clarify this for me - thank you. "

The body experiences"

which.. yes it can appear that way, but it is only thought that says so. when really looking with no preconceived thought, would you say the body is experiencing or is it just another part of experience with nothing(nobody) as the recipient of the experience?

[Bowzie]

Hi Vimalasara

That sounds like a lovely weekend.

7) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Going through the heart sutra line by line when I layed in bed ill. Searching within each place for a presence of self, finding nothing. Something clicked (not literally) Coupled with the questions "who is being attacked?", "who is being critisised?" I just saw/experinced that these thoughts and feelings was all there was, there was nothing underneath. Just emotion. The belief creates the illusion. Like Santa.

8) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

Nope, events in life/experiences occur from life or from thoughts, emotions, feelings, they bloom from the void/vastness or whatever and then cease. There is no controller, the bus goes along anyway with no driver. How can I? Even when I thought there was a self, I still could not control events in life. I was ill last week, whether I wanted to be or not, I could not control and did not choose that, the painful sensations I could not choose or not not choose. I cannot control how people speak to me, what others say or do, death, illness. It all just happens.

9) Anything to add?

Clarification of "the body experiences", the body feels sensations, which come as thoughts, labels of experience. There is no 'recipient' and no separate self to experience these sensations. Body experiences, the same as eyes see and ear hears and mind has thoughts, but there is no separate "I" to experience.

With love
SJ x

[Detox]

okay SJ this is all great - I now will post this thread for other LU guides to see. In this bit of the flow I ask three guides to confirm your seeing. Sometimes guides may ask for clarification. So just go with the flow. And will keep in touch. Thank you for opening up to the flow of non selfing.

with kindness vimalasara

[Bowzie]

Again, gratitude Vimalasara, for all your time and energy and the direct questioning, i wanted to tell you that it was particularly helpful when you said you would walk next to me for as long as it would take, there was a story/fear that i stopped believing in after that, and just was able to drop and relax more, so thank you again, for your kindness. Be well. SJ x