Artzo need guide

[artzo]

Today experiences of dissapointment, comparission, anger, extreme fear and nervousness.

Nothing changed, same feelings, same thoughts.
Dissapointment when nothing changes.

I see there is still a childish wish and belief that life should become easier.
Fear should go away, no nervousness, just easy handling of life.
Still sucked up into stories, still social nervousness and fear.
Don't know if it will ever change, there is a deep wish that it should.
Can't help but wishing it was easier, I am so tired of being scared all the time.

Scared of thoughts, feelings, situations, people, scared of this process, scared of you.
Fear fear fear increased by stories of how everything is spinning out of controll.

It feels like I am just a fake person, playing different roles just to fit in, not get hurt.
And that feelin of fakeness is probably more true then most other stories.
It is telling truth, that all this protecting, fitting in, is just a crazy game leading nowhere.
More games, less freedom, more trying more pain.

A fear that something, anything really can destroy me.

Fear looks like the wall walling out life.
Fear is trying to protect me.

Even storm of feelings nothing behind it.
What is behind fear?
As with everything, nothing is find behind it.
What is it protecting?
It is telling a story that something can go wrong.
Fear is a story of something needing protection.
It it a story of a me needing protecting, it is a story of total catastrophy if this me is hurt, killed, dissapeared, is exposed as fake.
But what is behind me, can't find anything either.

Comparission and frustration pops up when reading gateless crashers.
Feels like people just say, hello and two seconds later, seeing and done.
Feel embaresment, shame, hate for that not being the case here.

Just more stories telling how things should be.
An endless stream of thoughts, just a stream of thoughts.
Telling this, telling that.

Behind every thought it looks like nothing.

So many old belief and concepts of life, of what is me, how this me should react, be.

Something happens and story starts, this is how you are, this is how you think about it, this is how you always react.
This is how it should be done.

Comming back to this storytelling all the time.
Why is there indentification with story?
identification is a story and feeling, story about feeling, strengthen with more story.

Fellt like I blow the lid a bit, letting the feelings and words out.
Good, no good, have no idea.

Will keep looking at life, invenstigate what is happening.

[Ilona]

Oh great! The intensity is often the fuel that is needed in this process to end the search. So even if you say no to it, say yes to that no. It's ok to feel fear and it's absolutely ok to feel enormous frustration within this process. Allow that. Give these feelings space and just feel the raw, intense energy. Thank it. Watch how it moves and dissipates.

You are starring at it. Staring and seeing the nothing. Keep looking. And surrender to this process, whatever comes up is ok. It's all part of the process. All welcomed. Including fear and desire to end this. Including feeling of fakeness.

Is there an I? Is there a manager in charge of a separate piece of life owned by this "me"? Is there an I that can wake up?
Is there a witness doing the witnessing?


Write soon.
Sending you a hug.

[artzo]

Still looking.
Crazy baby, little sleep.
Insane tiredness and storm of thought and feelings.

Behind storm still find nothing.

Now hopefully some sleep, write more tommorrow.

[artzo]

This must be a cosmical joke or something.

So preview is not either possible to do if been logged into for to long.
All text gone again :(
Two hours of writing poff gone.
Some have to learn the hard way huh.

I am frustrated because I find no answer.
Because I feel I don't really answer any of your questions, it is just answers like, I can find no I, but still not answering if it exist or not.
Because I still don't know anything.
It feels like endless looping.

Don't know what recognition of no I really means.

Can these question you ask really be answered?

[Ilona]

You may type in notepad or other text program and when happy with answer copy paste here.

Look at this- thinking is happening, there is sensation of thinking. Content of thought is just thought. It is not reality, but labels and descriptions. Is there an actual I that is not a thought?

No answer is the answer, btw.

[artzo]

Thinking happen, labeling of things happen. Thought-stream is just thought followed by thought.
It can be anything really, labeling situation, or just random stories about anything.

Feelings and thought is real.
I appear in thought.
There is thought, there is sensation, then thought about I appear pointing to that earlier thought or sensation.
I have not found I appear other then in thought.

But what is identification with that thought and feelings.
This happens to me, yes it is a thought and feeling.

Identification with thought-stream and feelings is where the problem arise.
Thought can have no me, thought is just thought, feeling is just feeling.
How can then identifying appear?
I can only find identifying as new thought-story.
But how come there is belief in it?

Trying to find a feeling of identification, but can't find a feeling of identification without a story.
There are feelings, but not a single feeling being identification.
Thought appear, feeling can appear and then new thought pointing to that feeling saying yes yes that is me, see see that is me.

So how come there can be still identification if it is only seen as thought.
It is replaced by another story.
The mind keeps on pumping out thoughts and stories.

Sometime it feels so clear, life is just being.
There is no need for a manager, controller. thought feelings just stream by.
Actions are just happening by themselves.
No stickiness to it, nothing sticks, it just flows on like natural stream of water.
Then there is no thought about I, about what is experiencing.

Then thought come into the picture, and boom stuck.
Narrowing of experience.
Mind talking saying this is how it is.
And stuck in identification again.

[Ilona]

Sweet.

All identification is assumed. And when I thought is believed, when it's taken for subject that experience is happening to, then there is stickiness. It's an opportunity to examine what beliefs are there creating the reaction.
Notice, it's usually feeling of frustration, resistance, that creates an illusion of separation, not the feelings of love and joy.
The feeling of resistance is labeled 'me' and so the story begins.

Next time you notice clinging to thoughts of what should and should not be happening, investigate what is really going on. Is there an I that pops in or it's resistance that is labelled 'me'. When you notice, don't try to change anything, simply watch the mechanism itself. Write to me what you learned.

Sending love.

[artzo]

When ever getting lost in feeling of I, there is a strong current of thoughts about me.
Labels pointing to I.
You are also right it almost never happen when everything is lovely and joyful, then there is no care if it happens to an I or not there is no continuation making it into something important something that must be changed, something that must be fought.

It is like two worlds, one is the easy just flowing with what is.
The other is when labeling and stories get wild, often due to what is labeled as negative, then everything circles around this I, me, how worthless life is, how stupid and meaningless it all is and so on.

There is no I that jumps in, there is just commentary thoughts.

Sometimes it feels like I get it, other time and notice it is when mind is involved in analyzing labeling, stories I don't get it at all, it all seems impossible to get.

[Ilona]

is there anyone, anything that gets it? getting or not getting it is just another story. thinking that you get it is just another thought.

pattern recognition is not thought, it is knowing that is underneath thinking. this is where to look. what is here underneath the story, underneath all thinking. notice gaps between thoughts, experiencing, sensing, aliveness. thoughts tell story. can you see that? when you look at story and how it is narrated, what do you notice? is character artzo special? does this character belong to you? are you the teller, listener or director of the story?

write what you notice.

[artzo]

Getting it, not getting it is another thought-story of course.
So closed in narrow thinking.

Story is narrated with a mix of what is happening right now, what is noticed, input from surrounding, earlier conditioning, mind comparing it to earlier events and a spontaneous flow of thoughts.

Artzo is a mix of thoughts and feelings, with thoughts of earlier events, earlier conditioning from environment and people.
It is also thought pointing to this body and mind, and thought repeatedly saying this is me.
Also strengthen by the contact with other people saying what is me, not me.
The character is not special.

Listener would ring most true in this stage. As it is storytelling, thought saying this is you, this is how you are.
But also teller sometimes when it feels like it is me telling the story.

I know there is no getting it, but still there is so much trying and struggle here.
It still feels like some thoughts are made by someone.
Can't grasp that focus can be just focus, thought just thought, without a creator behind thought or focus-er behind focus.

Been so angry the last days.

Feel like I am letting you down, you giving of your time to help, and the recognition here never happens.
What if this takes years Ilona?

Read your answers so many times, and often it is just blank, just mind repeating the words and thought saying how is it, some effort, and nothing.
Read again, rest for a while trying to let it sink in, nothing.

Reboot, format, reinstall please.

[Ilona]

Hey, it's not my answers that are gonna do anything, but your own. I'm here just to support you on your journey. :)

So, you say that artso is a mix of thoughts and feelings. Nope.
Thoughts and feelings are happening, yes, but it's not artso.

Can you say that batman is a mix of thoughts and feelings? is artso different from batman? There is a story ABOUT thoughts and feelings that a character artso had. But when anger is here, is there artso here too?

Can you see that artso is a fictional character?
Look at story about him, is it the same story if told from different points of view- partner, parent, stranger, neighbour, colleague? Is there a true story? Does it change depending on the mood?

What is here if you look underneath the story? Right now, is there artso in the room? Look with eyes.

How about batman, is he here too?

How do you know?

Sending love.

[artzo]

Can you say that batman is a mix of thoughts and feelings? is artso different from batman?

I could say Batman is based on a mix of thoughts and feelings, cause that is what inspired to create him in the first place. Thoughts and feelings based on a wish to create a superhero character.
But Batman is not those thoughts and feelings, that is clear.

First I thought that Batman and Artzo is way different. Artzo is based on real thoughts and feelings happening to a real person but then it hit me, Batman is also based on thoughts and feelings, so the character Batman and Artzo is not different in that sense.

Thoughts and feelings create a character, the difference is only there is identification with Artzo, it is not identification with Batman.

There is a story ABOUT thoughts and feelings that a character artso had. But when anger is here, is there artso here too?

Yes there is a story about feelings and thoughts events, experience happening to a character called Artzo. When anger is there, there is just anger, the label it is happening to Artzo comes in later, but in the moment of anger there is a surge of energy called anger flowing through the system.

Can you see that artso is a fictional character?
Look at story about him, is it the same story if told from different points of view- partner, parent, stranger, neighbor, colleague? Is there a true story? Does it change depending on the mood?

Yes I can see Artzo is created from thoughts and feelings experienced. Out of experience, feelings, thought, outer input, conclusions of mind a character is created making up a fictional character that is then identified with.

The story is very different depending who you ask. There can be no true story about Artzo as all is based on who you ask or when you ask. The story about Artzo truly change depending on mood, very much indeed.

What is here if you look underneath the story? Right now, is there artso in the room? Look with eyes.

There is nothing underneath the story, it is just story, then more thoughts and feelings connected to that story. Right now there is no Artzo in the room. No Artzo can be seen.

How about batman, is he here too? How do you know?

Batman is not here. I know cause he can not bee seen, he can not be taken on, nothing concrete points to that Batman is here. No evidence can be found that Batman exists here in this room.

[Ilona]

Batman is not here. I know cause he can not bee seen, he can not be taken on, nothing concrete points to that Batman is here. No evidence can be found that Batman exists here in this room.

Interesting. Where is batman if it's not here? Does he exist? An image of batman exists, but what about batman himself? And if your name was batman, would you say, that batman exists? How about artzo?

[artzo]

Interesting. Where is batman if it's not here? Does he exist? An image of batman exists, but what about batman himself? And if your name was batman, would you say, that batman exists? How about artzo?

Batman exist in words, thoughts, pictures only. There is no physical aspect of Batman.
He is an imaginary person.

If my name was Batman I would be very suspicious or think my parents where nuts to name me after a action figure.

I see Artzo is a story.
But the difference between Batman and Artzo is Artzo is based on real events.
It feels Artzo has a history based on real events, Batmans life is all just pretend.

I can go out in the world and see when story about Artzo begins, old patterns playing themself out.
I can tell myself this is just a story, it is no real, but still it feels real, the threat, the fear triggered by thoughts.
Stories start telling things about future events, what will happen if we meet this and that person when out today.
Situations trigger old memories from events in the past, telling what happened and there is a identification with that, and feelings pops up.
Stories stories stories but with strong feeling it is happening to Artzo, to me, to an I, even though that I can not be located physically.
An attempt of mind to handle and control an uncontrollable world, no control over events, people, thoughts or feelings.
No wonder there is a feeling of powerlessness to it all.
And the struggle is making life harder and harder, closer and closer to insanity.
Sad actually.

[Ilona]

Try for 5 mintues to stop trying to hold on. Just feel what it is here if you relax trying. Just rest and watch what happens.
Can you know what will come up next? Then why worry about it? You can relax and watch what is happening as it is happening, see that it is not you doing that, it's just happening. Breathing, sounds, sensations, thoughts, all just doing their thing.

After 5 minutes you can come back to the state of trying to understand, achieve, see something. But just for 5 min let whatever is here be enough.


Write to me what happens.

Then for another 5 min, intensely focus on question: is there a self, that focuses? What is that is seeing? Is there effort in seeing? Can you try harder to see with eyes? Does it affect the seen?

Play with this. Watch how focus moves around. Describe what you notice.