Asking for guidance

[mukti_99]

Hello Richard,
today was similar day as yesterday, maybe more interactive with people and therefore less quiet.
Not that something is placed really much "higher" then other, but still can notice preferences (=some thoughts and feelings) for observing to be included. Might be that past ideas (= nothing then repeated thoughts today), that it (seeing, observing..) means something, that this a "good sign"....
What is experienced? Much more relax, yes. But freedom, can not say yet. Was looking what expectations are here around a description of freedom. And could see that the mind was compering again with some past experiences, full of openness or spaciousness or lightness or detachment.... and nothing of those is fully here, then relax around "no need" to be or feel or react as something else then what is here happening. What is really great indeed.

[richardcooper2k]

OK, so we are not looking for any particular experience
And we are not looking for something to "stay" or something not to happen.

If there is no self, what is left ?
What is happening ?

[mukti_99]

Hello Richard,
100 times until afternoon the same thought was running in my head (speaking to you), which is:
"Richard, what you will say, if I tell you that all goes in the old way...?" :-(
Then for some moments believed and next knowing came that this is not true, that all are the same... so here and there... now it's not here anymore.

OK, so we are not looking for any particular experience
And we are not looking for something to "stay" or something not to happen.

Ok, then it doesn't matter whatever is going on. All is meaningless.
Thoughts don't agree with that sometimes ;-)

If there is no self, what is left ?
What is happening ?

Nothing really different then always. Maybe this is not really the break through....
Here is less believing in thoughts and a kind of acceptance to what is going on. For example, today was emotional day, a birthday of recently passed beloved father... and nothing wrong with all of those feelings, grief, thoughts of memories... it's life. What is new is less labelling is going on, less putting the meaning to happening.

[richardcooper2k]

Is it really this simple ?
Life, sensations, all just happening ?

[mukti_99]

Is it really this simple ?
Life, sensations, all just happening ?

it doesn't feel simple at the moment at all, but after looking into doesn't change the fact
it feels a bit like cutting from situation-is it only old mechanism to look and feel about it ?

[richardcooper2k]

it feels a bit like cutting from situation-is it only old mechanism to look and feel about it ?

Not sure i follow what you are saying. Isn't being present in a situation sensory ?
Don't thoughts seem more abstract ?

Have you seen through the illusion of the self ?

[mukti_99]

Not sure i follow what you are saying. Isn't being present in a situation sensory ?
Don't thoughts seem more abstract ?

They are, but not mostly. And here are doubts, although you have been said that:

"We are not looking for any particular experience. And we are not looking for something to "stay" or something not to happen."

Here are some expectations about perceiving everything and I can not really accept this part I see now. If looking comes I can see that this are again only thoughts about how it should be, but this is true only while looking. Out of looking, perceiving through glasses "this is not it" with constant little tensioned feeling on face and in body continue... and here this means something, you see?? :(((

Have you seen through the illusion of the self ?

I don't think that this is really break through Richard, because if it would be, perhaps I could say doubtlessly "YES".
As said previous, there is less believing in thoughts and more of acceptance to what is going on, less labelling, less putting the meaning to happening, although the body feels different (and this is not easy sometimes).... and when seeing happens it is clear. All the rest time didn't change, so following the thoughts, feelings, making some conclusions.... happens as somebody here inside, as it was before. And "this is not it" is here believed thoughts, which comes with this report :(
Please help.

[richardcooper2k]

Here are some expectations about perceiving everything and I can not really accept this part I see now. If looking comes I can see that this are again only thoughts about how it should be, but this is true only while looking. Out of looking, perceiving through glasses "this is not it" with constant little tensioned feeling on face and in body continue... and here this means something, you see?? :(((

OK Mukti. That's good. An expectation has been identified.
But is it only true while there is looking and seeing ?

These feelings of tension and suffering are our spiritual friends
How else would we know there was delusion ?
They are like a big sign saying "you need to look and investigate, something isn't as it appears"
This still happens after gate. I am very grateful for suffering as it shows me the way like a big flag.
Seeing through the self is not the end of delusion.

Do you really think thoughts like "i am doing this" and "this is not it" will stop after gate ?

[mukti_99]

Richard, you can not imagine, how much you made me laughing and relax with this reply :-))))))
Thank you. Let's look more close:

But is it only true while there is looking and seeing ?

No. It is true all the time. Hmmm....in delusion, without seeing, thoughts are believed and therefore painful. So a sign as you say and as it was this case...

This still happens after gate. I am very grateful for suffering as it shows me the way like a big flag.
Seeing through the self is not the end of delusion.

Maybe not every second, but mainly YES, isn't it? I imagine that delusion might come for some time and when seeing break it, it is immediately clear what was going on and there is no problem, just passing as different experience. Wrong?

Do you really think thoughts like "i am doing this" and "this is not it" will stop after gate ?

I was so much laughing on this... :))))
You have exactly touched the point - this I was expecting too !!
It's not that they don't come, but that they are not believed and can freely pass only - correct?

[mukti_99]

These feelings of tension and suffering are our spiritual friends
How else would we know there was delusion ?
They are like a big sign saying "you need to look and investigate, something isn't as it appears"
This still happens after gate. I am very grateful for suffering as it shows me the way like a big flag

.
Today was thinking about a mechanism of believing thoughts and suffering... and yes again, suffering is a spiritual friend. When nice, excited thoughts run, believed or not, there is no wish to speak about any illusion... :)

[richardcooper2k]

Richard, you can not imagine, how much you made me laughing and relax with this reply :-))))))

:-))))))))))

This still happens after gate. I am very grateful for suffering as it shows me the way like a big flag.
Seeing through the self is not the end of delusion.

Maybe not every second, but mainly YES, isn't it? I imagine that delusion might come for some time and when seeing break it, it is immediately clear what was going on and there is no problem, just passing as different experience. Wrong?

Here, on LU, we are seeing through the illusion of self. After the gate the road does not end. There is more to be seen. Other delusions to be broken (if the path is continued). When a thought (like "me") is grasped at the eye is taken off the ball of experience (reality). When looking/feeling into experience resumes the eye is back on the ball.

Do you really think thoughts like "i am doing this" and "this is not it" will stop after gate ?

I was so much laughing on this... :))))
You have exactly touched the point - this I was expecting too !!
It's not that they don't come, but that they are not believed and can freely pass only - correct?

See comment to previous post. They pass freely if grasping at them doesn't happen. Sometimes i find it helpful to notice the feeling tone "behind" thoughts. Really they are sensation like everything else.
Try this and let me know what happens

Today was thinking about a mechanism of believing thoughts and suffering... and yes again, suffering is a spiritual friend. When nice, excited thoughts run, believed or not, there is no wish to speak about any illusion... :)

Exactly !

[mukti_99]

See comment to previous post. They pass freely if grasping at them doesn't happen. Sometimes i find it helpful to notice the feeling tone "behind" thoughts. Really they are sensation like everything else.
Try this and let me know what happens

Yes, will go with this, thank you. Did try already two times and it has worked, somehow cuts the thoughts story connected to feeling/sensation.. but will try more. Yes, seems more and more that sensations are "running" experiencing.

I feel to be alone last time with what we are pointing to. Had a hope that it will go quicker through, but now feels OK how it is. What to do anyway...
Connected to our dialogue, would like to tell you that from Thursday on (2.5.) till Sunday (12.5.) will be away of comp and not able to respond ( going to silent retreat, booked much before). Hope this will not be a problem.
I was still not able to import Enlightening Quotes to Bluestack on comp, will play more after coming back home. If you feel that some more of them would be helpful here, may I ask you to copy them to post as previous time?
Thank you Richard for all and would be pleased to continue this knocking on the Gate (knocking from Inside, as Rumi says).

[richardcooper2k]

No problem with the silent retreat Mukti
I'll still be here when you finish

Remember we are not trying to control experience. We are just looking to find out what is really there.
Thoughts will continue to arise and some will contain the label "me"
And as you have noticed tension will arise also from time to time.
But just check - is this tension happening to anyone ?

So while you are on retreat you might notice changes...
maybe there will be less thoughts.....more calm, relaxed
and afterwards maybe there will be more thought again.....irritation, anger
But is there EVER any one having these thoughts and sensations, even when it appears(in thought) there is ?
We want to see what is true all the time regardless of if there is calm, peace, happiness, etc or not

[mukti_99]

Richard, thank you. I feel such support from your side. And believe you know, how much precious it is !!

Will stay with what will come with focus to whom anything is happening.
Much love till next,
mukti

[mukti_99]

Hello again dear Richard,
here back after arrival and some days with migraine which seems to be part of a packet after retreats.
It was a great time to stay with focus on looking, on-line enquiring into a nature of life's flow... Yes, there were ups and downs, but not of really long term, more passing through... downs mainly with contracted feelings to get, understand, see "something" through...
With support of leader it was seen how "controller role" is again and again creating an entity "me", using measure stick to control what is going on in thoughts, feelings, actions... also was seen how mind trying (or is successful in) creating again and again here somebody through likes, dislikes,desires,rejections,acting, story's thinking, supported feelings and so on... just seeing the mechanism of functioning through own experience.
Have noticed a difference in experience when "I" is in charge (much more stickiness) or when without "me" life goes on (lighter). Although this is not a case at the moment, because both is experience in the movie only, felt through this body. Even this body is seen only through functioning of sight sense. If taken away, there is no body and no world too. When there is no "I" then there is no time and no space too. With "I" everything else appears, manifestation, life...

What can I say today? At the moment here is an inner contentment as hasn't been for a long time. I lot of daily "challenging" happens, but going with them step by step, with no big concern, just as things are and has to be done. It doesn't mean that here is happiness about them but more acceptance, coolness. Nothing really changed outside, nothing was expected too.
Enquiry still goes on (mainly when I'm not in contact with other people), thoughts which move attention from labelling or thinking stream. This comes to write now.

Looking forward for your reply/note on whatever pulls your attention,
love mukti