looking for a guide

[pokerpro]

actually the more i get into it
no listener
no act of listening
no sound listened to
same for any experience

[Mad biker]

finding it difficult to put what is happening into words

[[OK, just really give yourself to this attempt big time. Words are all we have got here in this medium and yours have been doing just fine so far, but that is just so far. You are good with words let's see more of them amigo. I see how long you spend on this page here composing those minimalist replies why bother? It is so time consuming. What about all the other stuff that you don't put on the page in those time consuming attempts to keep your replies minimal? Just cut loose with words and have a ball! Stick it down on the page.]]

[i]more and more i experience no listener also even the act of listening seems not real the sound is only real in the moment i am listening to it. the more i experience the listener and the act as insubantantial etc the more the sound appears fleeting and open[best word i can think of
[/i]

[["more and more i experience no listener..." ? Well either you do experience a listener or you do not! Which one is it?]]

[Mad biker]

Look we have crossed in the post (Jeezus! Life on the web eh?) so would you just address yourself to my last reply to your previous one (in which I quote you in bold) and we can just take it from there? (ie let's leave your latest for later!)

[Mad biker]

PS.
Things are looking good but don't be afraid to repeat yourself. I still want a reply to my post before my last.

[pokerpro]

okay
walking along dunl;aoghaire peir nature of me as no self and others just dropped away started laughing out loud at the silliness of it all.certainly the silliness of a belief in an i.using enlightening quotes ap to help reflection , using section on direct experience now.feel like i am on downward slope now but not sure yet.i have an itch which i dont believe i will stop scratching. the notion of an i seems ridiculous. i have a feeling of inevitability for the first time like i am just about to cross a bridge that isnt there that i will never cross .

[pokerpro]

no listener

[pokerpro]

always i have worried about death some sense that there is no death as i looked at the waves in harbour

[Mad biker]

You are looking nice right now. More later.

[Mad biker]

I am now asking you:
Is it in fact the case, that you now are saying that in your experience, there is no 'self', that there is no 'I' and never has been any or 'self' or 'I' (because there never was any or 'self', or 'I' in the first place)? I am asking, therefore, if it is indeed the case that you have seen through the delusion of 'self' and 'I''?
Please allow a frankness, and fulness of response to over-ride any previous tendency towards brevity and succinctness on your part. Just feel free to open up a bit more. This is all looking fairly plausible at this stage from your posts, and, you and I, look as though we are now closing in on what seems, on the face of it, to be the final elements towards closure, a closure that seems ultimately assured even if that takes a few more exchanges to finally nail down.

[pokerpro]

have been musing on your question since its post
it feels like i have seen through the delusion of self and i believe sort of experience it to have never been there.
but i am not sure whether i am just thinking that so i am trying to explore whether i do actually experience it like that.
it seems a bit mad that it is so bleeding obvious however i remain unconvinced as yet that i have broken through any thing even though i seem to view things differently.
anytime i do i when i spot it it just seems ridiculous
i find it very difficult to take myself very seriously at all
when i consider if i die tomorrow am i like a wave going back to the sea, well i see that intellectually but am i okay with it ...... i am more okay with it ...actually its grand i think.

anyway thought i would ramble a bit cos you wanted me to

[Mad biker]

it feels like i have seen through the delusion of self and i believe sort of experience it to have never been there.
but i am not sure whether i am just thinking that so i am trying to explore whether i do actually experience it like that.

OK amigo, just take it steady although, I will add that; "JUST FUCKING LOOK!" is a quote from one of the top guys here on LU (who is Irish too if that helps?) Obviously he was not just being rude or anything so crass, he really does have a real REAL point there believe me, I am endorsing that from my own experience. So, that said, I want to hear back from you in more detail about this; '...i believe sort of experience it to have never been there.' because that statement on its own, as it stands, is just not good enough.

I think I know exactly what you mean by; '...so bleedin obvious...' and yeah that sounds about right really! Some folk can feel a bit short-changed. One guy called it; 'eerily ordinary' which I like. But Insight is not necessarily a bliss thing and expecting some grand realization gets in the way of real seeing. Everything already is as it always is.
Take this:
Look at a chair. Do you see the chair?
Look at your self. Do you see a self?
Some other classic coaching stuff:
As you move around in your normal activities, check and see if you can find an actual self actually moving the body around. Walking, typing, dressing yourself, etc.
Is there an 'I' living your life? Or are there just thoughts about everything, including a self, seeming to live your life?

That is very different and means that pokerpro can unencumber and can therefor Enlighten.
Just look at the evidence. In your daily life, in all your actions, keep returning to this. Focus on the thoughts as you move around. Keep checking if there is something real, besides a thought, that owns and directs the body?

Science has recently proven via brain scans, that what we call decisions have already been made long before we noticed them and saw ourselves acting on them (!) So even decisions just happen by themselves.

Actually hear the sound of the traffic. Can you actually hear the self in the same way?
Actually feel your feet touching the ground. Can you actually feel the self in the same way?
Notice that internal picture. Is it "you" or just a picture?

Look at a table, look at the components, imagine the table taken apart, where is the table? Is there really such a thing? Could this be the same for what you call 'you''?

You saying more was just great. With this medium less is definitely less! So just feel free to ramble.

[pokerpro]

doing lots of lookin today.... will write more tomorrow

[Mad biker]

K

[Mad biker]

From your last post it looks like expectations might be intruding for you now. I'd just like you to take a look at some stock coaching pointers which you'd have largely inhaled from the Gateless book and this site in general but they might have slipped away into the background over time. It is good to recognize the expectations you have for awakening. It will be nothing like what you expect. Here we are not looking for an experience or an altered mind-state. This is not a quick path to eternal bliss or anything like that. We are looking for a simple recognition of reality. That is all.

This is not a project where you gather information, cover lots of different angles, lay out the results, and draw conclusions. It is about looking within your experience to see what the “I” is. It is about taking an honest look. It’s not about thoughts.

Let go of all the beliefs, all the gurus or masters, all the books you have read or seminars you have followed. They won’t help here. This is not something learned; it is something to see. It comes in different ways, but when you know it, you know it. The present moment is the only truth.

Don’t look to “liberated others” to define your own knowing. Everyone is different, and every karma-stream is different. With some there is a huge “pop” (like a champagne cork), and with others a soft pop. In the end, the knowing that you have truly seen through self is truly yours. Otherwise this would be persuasion, not investigation.

This work does not aim to trigger certain types of altered states of consciousness. These may happen (or not), yet they are entirely beside the point. What these conversations are intended to do is invite you to simply look directly at what is already the case right now, regardless of whatever state of consciousness may be happening.

The wish for a final “done” is; surprise, surprise a story of the final carrot to be reached, a reason for the fictional “I” to try to get “somewhere.” Everything is constantly changing, moving, and interacting. There is no “done” in the real world. If you want to be at home, be at home in the flow.

This isn’t about making the sense of being alive stronger or experienced more clearly. It’s simply about seeing what is real when you are not subject to the “I” illusion.

You do not have to have a spiritual history or a certain number of hours of meditation to see the truth. This has nothing to do with enhanced states, nor is any prior knowledge needed. All you need is the desire to see, no matter what, and the will to engage with this inquiry fully. Honesty is your best friend.

[pokerpro]

yes you are right expectations have been intruding a bit recently over last few days
and i have been getting a bit confused and what i seemed to have absorbed has slipped away over last few days
i will redouble my efforts to look at the present moment
and reflect on all above particularly last paragraph...... desire to see no matter what...... honesty best friend...
have really considered trying to get on retreat this friday with you but not possible.
one point my full engagement with this enquiry seems difficult to muster sometimes