Would love to see that I am not there.

Postby **silentarrow** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:11 pm

what is it that needs to be liberated?

the sensation is not gonna dissapear. no bright lights, no gongs. what do you expect that it should feel like?

so, will I still keep feeling that I am the body and that I am separate.
Now, when I focus I do see that these are just thoughts coming up which say I am the body,
I am separate or I need to be liberated.

But, it still feels just intellectual at the moment.

Is there really hope for me?

Postby **Ilona** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:50 pm

Lol about hope. No there is no hope. It's not about hope. It's about looking for yourself. You are gonna be hanging there until finally you decide that it's enough and look for yourself.

What is behind all thought?
What is behind feeling?
Is there a you in there?
Is there a you if there are no thoughts about it? Is there a you if you don't use nouns but only verbs?

When you sit down and close your eyes, is there a separation? If so, describe it, what is separate from what?

If there is- you are not looking.
But don't worry, seeing happens by itself. Like everything else.

If you really want to find out the truth, you have to reach for it.

Now

Postby **silentarrow** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:57 pm

Lol about hope. No there is no hope. It's not about hope. It's about looking for yourself. You are gonna be hanging there until finally you decide that it's enough and look for yourself.

What is behind all thought?
What is behind feeling?
Is there a you in there?
Is there a you if there are no thoughts about it? Is there a you if you don't use nouns but only verbs?

When you sit down and close your eyes, is there a separation? If so, describe it, what is separate from what?

If there is- you are not looking.
But don't worry, seeing happens by itself. Like everything else.

If you really want to find out the truth, you have to reach for it.

Now

Okay.
Will do that and post tomorrow.

Postby **silentarrow** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:49 pm

Lol about hope. No there is no hope. It's not about hope. It's about looking for yourself. You are gonna be hanging there until finally you decide that it's enough and look for yourself.

What is behind all thought?
What is behind feeling?
Is there a you in there?
Is there a you if there are no thoughts about it? Is there a you if you don't use nouns but only verbs?

When you sit down and close your eyes, is there a separation? If so, describe it, what is separate from what?

If there is- you are not looking.
But don't worry, seeing happens by itself. Like everything else.

If you really want to find out the truth, you have to reach for it.

Now

There is nothing behind feeling or thought?

Is there a you in there?

I was sitting almost the whole day today, trying to find the 'me',
and all I could find was sensations, thoughts and images.
But nothing that I could call me.
But It's not the certainity or confidence with which you guys can say,
that the I/me is not there.

When I sit and close my eyes, I find the image of the body, sensations
and a thought that says that I am separate. But am I separate?
But, it's not yet a certainity, it's not a surity.
It's like I have to see again and see and remind myself.
Yeah, it's just thoughts and sensations.
But It's not the certainity or confidence with which you guys can say,
that the I/me is not there.

So, how do I proceed from here?

Postby **Ilona** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:43 pm

What do you expect now? You see that I/ me can not be found but still hold on to idea that there is something to be found. What are you looking for?
Instead looking for something that does not exist turn 180 degrees and face what is. Life flowing freely as forms, as stories, with no control from your side as all is one movement.

Tell me what you see, what is going on here?

Postby **silentarrow** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:19 pm

What do you expect now? You see that I/ me can not be found but still hold on to idea that there is something to be found. What are you looking for?
Instead looking for something that does not exist turn 180 degrees and face what is. Life flowing freely as forms, as stories, with no control from your side as all is one movement.

Tell me what you see, what is going on here?

Okay, I am feeling a little frustrated now.
I think I should just kind of begin again.
I feel separate and I feel like I am the body.
I am here and the world is out there.

Postby **silentarrow** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:21 pm

I dont know. Maybe, I am not looking properly.
Just give me a few tips on how to look properly.

Postby **Ilona** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:14 pm

then stop asking me how to look and look for yourself. you alone. read the whole thread, take it all in and write what comes out of it.

Postby **Ilona** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:34 am

What is not clear?
Please post everyday. Wherever you are at.

Postby **silentarrow** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:10 pm

Okay, the last 2 days, I have been asking myself
"who controls the thoughts" or who is behind the thought
and I am looking inside.

The difference is that instead of trying to answer mentally,
now I am just looking inside to find out.

And now, I feel that the sense of me is getting a little fainter.
It seems that the sense of me is also a thought.

So maybe I am getting a little nearer.

Postby **Ilona** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:42 pm

yes, once looking starts, things begin making sense. rather that thinking, see what is and how it all works. everything is as it always was. all there needs to happen is one innocent, curious look.

Postby **silentarrow** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:59 am

Hi,
I have a question.
When I ask myself "is there an entity 'me' other than thoughts/sensations about me?"
So, when I ask the above question, my attention goes to the me sensation or me thought
or whatever it is.
So, what am I supposed to do then?

Postby **Ilona** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:55 am

Look deeper.
Find that sense- I am, beingness, aliveness. It's always have been the same, unchanging.

Now notice the mind, what does it say?
Does it say- this sense is me?
Investigate if it's true. See if the sense itself is personal? Is it happening to anyone?

And pay attention to the labelling process. See word me as a label that mind puts over the sense out of habit.

What comes up?

Postby **silentarrow** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:30 pm

Look deeper.
Find that sense- I am, beingness, aliveness. It's always have been the same, unchanging.

Now notice the mind, what does it say?
Does it say- this sense is me?
Investigate if it's true. See if the sense itself is personal? Is it happening to anyone?

And pay attention to the labelling process. See word me as a label that mind puts over the sense out of habit.

What comes up?

No, the sense isn't personal.
It's just there. It is not the one in control.
And I realized something today.
I was kind of feeling that I am the body.
Then I noticed that the body didnt have a problem at all.
The body was just there sitting quietly and comfortably in a bed.
So, no problems there.
All the problems are just arising as thoughts.
So, then I asked myself, if the body is not suffering then who is suffering?
Who is the one who has problems?

And well, I have been looking into this question today and am getting a blank response.

Postby **Ilona** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:37 pm

There is no sufferer. Only thoughts about it. You will not find the who that is suffering. It does not exist.
There is no suffering if there are no thoughts about it.
And thoughts are happening by themselves. Only the 'human software' has been corrupted, there is an assumption there that there is a 'me' that is suffering. Is there?
Take a look.