The Gate

Hi Filip,
yes, I understand what you say about spaciousness, because as soon as it is named, it becomes "something."

The only part of what you said I want to point to is:

to sum up- knowing that there is no self seems to be available at all times now (but it may pass, who knows?)

I'd like to know you are quite sure about this--because any time there is an apparent question about it, it is so easy to look. There was a period where I was questioning, and I would look fifty times a day--then finally, the knowing dawned that I'd never find a "self" there. Never was, never would be. Perhaps working on question two will clarify this:

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

with love,
Skye

hey thanks for the reply. i didnt understand this sentence "because any time there is an apparent question about it, it is so easy to look."

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

I am not sure when it starts as i dont recall much before i was about 7 years old. i think babies don't experience separate self, i think it kicks in when mind matures. So either it's picked up from society at some point, or it's somehow in collective bundle of thoughts we all share ( it would be interesting to see how child reacts if it would be raised in selfless enviroment). But those are all just maybe's, as i don't recall starting of illusion of self. It is an (untested) assumption that there is someone living life. Someone separate from life. It's thoughts labeling certain experiences, as "me". It can label anything, so it can be "my" car, "my" thought etc. usually the core of "me" is in body image, body sensations, feelings (emotions), and thoughts. that means, certain expressions of the things i mentioned in the sentence before are labeled as "me".

In other words, there is consciousness, than thoughts appear in consciousness and they label ceratin parts of consciousness therefore creating artificial separations. that is one of the mind functions. So than consciousness kind of appears to come out of thoughts. It's just case of mistaken identity, i don't really know what it is, why is it like that and why it couldn't be simpler. Maybe it's evolution of mind-perception, of consciousness (but im going to theories again here)

Maybe you would like me to clear something for you.

Filip,
This was a clear answer to question two, thank you.

As to the sentence you didn't understand:
If that sense of a separate self seems to reappear, it is so easy to just look and see--is it truly substantial, or just a figment of thoughts and feelings? Is that clearer?

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

with love,
Skye

Hey,

yes, now i understand. I feel like this right now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

There is no difference actually. Big amount of seeking stopped. Felt a bit dissapointed right after, but no more (there were a lot of expectations about something being different). It also is a bit more hmm... safe? relaxed? Just background safeness or relaxedness feeling that is. I get stressed as much as i used to, and stress looks the same. It also takes longer to fall asleep. I usually fall asleep within 1 minute, but right now i have overflooding of thoughts when lying down (mostly it's unconsciouss thinking. that means thoughts running on auto mode and there isn't really awareness of the space behind thoughts. and occasional waking up from thought trance, but the trance returns pretty much right after) and falling asleep takes some time, i dont know how long.

:))

Thanks. Next question:

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

with love,
Skye

I see that all my life was kind of scripted for this to happen. about a year ago this process intensified. there were very strong waves of wanting to wake up, coming and going. what was the last bit? i have watched video on batgap.com (same site from where ive found out about liberation unleashed). nothing in particular really clicked, but i felt strong waking up energy again. i've had a few really strong experiences this day, of just being in the moment. mind turned off completely, and everything got very real. later that night (or the next one im not sure), i smoked some hashish(it's a bit embarassing), and while lying in bed, i looked and saw that there is nothing solid here that is being aware. i was like"pffffff.... so that's it?". And i just casually went to sleep soon after that. it wasn't big or anything at all. barely noticable really. it was very clear, but i think i already knew it on some level. that night i had no problems falling asleep. nights after i had problems.

Hi Filip,
It was that gentle for me as well. Just an "oh, really?"

Here's the next question:
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

with love,
Skye

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

There is no separate entity that could do anything, and it includes choosing and intending. Choosing and intending itself exist but there is no separate decider and intender. Most of my thougts are still structered to say "i'm chosing this", "im doing that" though.

Do the thoughts shift in a way that there is much less "me" in them, after they see the unreality of I? That is after some time after seeing the truth, does content of thoughts adjusts itself to the "new" I-less reality? does it "evolve" in any way?

Hugs

Over time, unwinding does occur. It may be very, very gradual (common), or sudden (rare, and often written about). For me, it has been very, very gradual.

Could you please give specific examples on the last question, please?

with love,
Skye

hey, that last question fallen away ;) new question is:

is it normal that even though i see there is no me, i dont always recognize the space consciously? I mean there are moments where everything feels solid, and for example i have no idea what the word consciousness means (in direct experience). There is still no me, even if everything seems solid. Does the space gradually is more and more present in the daily life experience?

are there any more verifying questions?

hugs

Filip

I'll contemplate your question.

When I said I wanted more specific examples, it was for verifying question #5:
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

Thanks and with love,
Skye

Haha, i thought you were asking for examples to understand my question better :))


ok, so for example: there is a choice in what i will eat today. So there are limited options -how much time can be spent, what shops/restaurants are nearby etc. There are certain things that i imagine to taste better so i pick those (it's hard to write, because whole language is based on the I word). So it looks like this. Actually what is happening, is that decision-making process is occuring. it's the sum of everything - mind, body, emotions, circumstances, enviroment etc. There is noone separate that is doing it, it's just happening. Mind is saying that I'm doing it, but there is no I in reality, it's just the mind speaking with the I-based language. Do you want more examples?

I think that is fine, Filip.
Final question (and then all will be reviewed by those more experienced than I)
6) Anything to add?

with love, and Happy Thanksgiving if you celebrate it tomorrow...
Skye

Nope, nothing to add ;)

haha we don't celebrate thanksgiving in poland, but happy thanksgiving to you ;) thank you for helping me

You will be hearing from me in a bit--may be slow do to the holidays.
with love,
Skye