Yes, finding out what is 'this'. What am I is beyond this Forums purpose which is to see through the illusion of 'I' only. There are several groups for 'aftercare' that you will get access to after passing the gate.
Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.
How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.
warm regards Vivi
Yes, please
Re: Yes, please
>Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No, there is no me to which thoughts refer. No, there never was, it's just thoughts.
>Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
the illusion of I - i assume u call that 'illusion of separate self' is a thought. for me it has worked in a way that thoughts say: 'I'm doing this', I'm feeling this' - some thought always tells some story and an assumption is made that it talks about this body, about the feelings that the body feels, but when an attempt is made to find this "I" - the one to which thoughts refer to - it can't be found. not the happy I, and not the sad and suffering I, it just doesnt exist. it's all thoughts. I'm actually pretty amazed that u made me see this. it seems like a little encouragement and 'a permission' was needed. and u did just that and the outlook has really changed, and this seems to be a permanent change, permanent seeing. i still dont know how it works.
>How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.
nothing fundamentally special. for me it's intimate. it's something like a flower. when a belief in I happens a flower is stepped on, but it will always rise back up from the ground when the time comes - when it's seen through that the 'i' does not exist at all, so there never is a permanent problem, its always temporary. something that will go away. i don't know why it goes away, but there is much more relying on it to always going away - changing.
>How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.
i would say that it's a thought. seeing through this "i-thinking" doesnt cure any disease in the body, doesnt make any money, doesnt bring home food, etc. but it fundamentally and constantly destroys the "one that is suffering".
feels like waay too much talking :)
No, there is no me to which thoughts refer. No, there never was, it's just thoughts.
>Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
the illusion of I - i assume u call that 'illusion of separate self' is a thought. for me it has worked in a way that thoughts say: 'I'm doing this', I'm feeling this' - some thought always tells some story and an assumption is made that it talks about this body, about the feelings that the body feels, but when an attempt is made to find this "I" - the one to which thoughts refer to - it can't be found. not the happy I, and not the sad and suffering I, it just doesnt exist. it's all thoughts. I'm actually pretty amazed that u made me see this. it seems like a little encouragement and 'a permission' was needed. and u did just that and the outlook has really changed, and this seems to be a permanent change, permanent seeing. i still dont know how it works.
>How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.
nothing fundamentally special. for me it's intimate. it's something like a flower. when a belief in I happens a flower is stepped on, but it will always rise back up from the ground when the time comes - when it's seen through that the 'i' does not exist at all, so there never is a permanent problem, its always temporary. something that will go away. i don't know why it goes away, but there is much more relying on it to always going away - changing.
>How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.
i would say that it's a thought. seeing through this "i-thinking" doesnt cure any disease in the body, doesnt make any money, doesnt bring home food, etc. but it fundamentally and constantly destroys the "one that is suffering".
feels like waay too much talking :)
Re: Yes, please
Haha Kaspars, know the feeling of 'too many words'
Have to ask you some more question though :)
What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?
When you say "I", what are you referring to?
Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience?
Actually look. Does experience belong to the body, or does the body belong to experience?
Greetings Vivi
Have to ask you some more question though :)
What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?
When you say "I", what are you referring to?
Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience?
Actually look. Does experience belong to the body, or does the body belong to experience?
Greetings Vivi
Re: Yes, please
>What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
bringing it consistency back to the fact that it all is thinking. that it's going in a circle from which there is no way out, so the whole circle has to be abandoned. there is no explanation how it is abandoned.
>was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual?
it was something like a permission slip. its like seeing is happening in the right direction and instead of abondoning the seeing and going into a thought a seeing happens that it's all just a thought, a recognition of that happens and when u come back the recognition it's still there. i cant say if its gradual or a moment. its like asking when did a flower bud open - was it a moment or was it gradual :) there is no answer to that.
>what exactly happened?
a recognition that all of this is thinking which is arguing with itself. it all is one voice. mooji told a story about a cake that openeded this up for me some months ago, but i didnt understand what to do with it.... the story goes like this. u are in a birthday and find yourself in a kitchen. a voice in your head says - "take a piece of cake and arrange the rest, so that its not seen that something was taken". u take a piece of cake and do as the voice says. u eat it and its amazing. and a voice in your head says - "why did u take it? it's not right".
>When you say "I", what are you referring to?
It's just a manner of speaking, it doesnt refer to anything.
>Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience?
if there is experiencer then it seems that there is seeing through thinking. i do not know what or how it is. i dont seen an experiencer, i see things changing constantly, even invisibly.
>Actually look. Does experience belong to the body, or does the body belong to experience?
the more seeing is allowed the more it is seen that everything is an experience. its not clear how exactly it works, but it works even without it being clearly understood. understanding seems to be overrated. its important to understand only if one is attached to something and wants to keep it, but no understanding arises from "wanting to keep", maybe some extra beliefs arise.
attachment can still happen, but it's seen that it's just an invisible pulling motion. a wave in stillness - happening! :) and it is allowed.
bringing it consistency back to the fact that it all is thinking. that it's going in a circle from which there is no way out, so the whole circle has to be abandoned. there is no explanation how it is abandoned.
>was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual?
it was something like a permission slip. its like seeing is happening in the right direction and instead of abondoning the seeing and going into a thought a seeing happens that it's all just a thought, a recognition of that happens and when u come back the recognition it's still there. i cant say if its gradual or a moment. its like asking when did a flower bud open - was it a moment or was it gradual :) there is no answer to that.
>what exactly happened?
a recognition that all of this is thinking which is arguing with itself. it all is one voice. mooji told a story about a cake that openeded this up for me some months ago, but i didnt understand what to do with it.... the story goes like this. u are in a birthday and find yourself in a kitchen. a voice in your head says - "take a piece of cake and arrange the rest, so that its not seen that something was taken". u take a piece of cake and do as the voice says. u eat it and its amazing. and a voice in your head says - "why did u take it? it's not right".
>When you say "I", what are you referring to?
It's just a manner of speaking, it doesnt refer to anything.
>Is there an experiencer experiencing, or is there only experience?
if there is experiencer then it seems that there is seeing through thinking. i do not know what or how it is. i dont seen an experiencer, i see things changing constantly, even invisibly.
>Actually look. Does experience belong to the body, or does the body belong to experience?
the more seeing is allowed the more it is seen that everything is an experience. its not clear how exactly it works, but it works even without it being clearly understood. understanding seems to be overrated. its important to understand only if one is attached to something and wants to keep it, but no understanding arises from "wanting to keep", maybe some extra beliefs arise.
attachment can still happen, but it's seen that it's just an invisible pulling motion. a wave in stillness - happening! :) and it is allowed.
Re: Yes, please
Thank you Kaspars
I will bring your answers to other guides and be back ASAP
:)
Vivi
I will bring your answers to other guides and be back ASAP
:)
Vivi
Re: Yes, please
Hi Kaspars
Confirmation has happened :)
Welcome through the Gateless Gate
:)
Vivi
Confirmation has happened :)
Welcome through the Gateless Gate
:)
Vivi
Re: Yes, please
oops forgot - I have send you a PM
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