Guidance requested.

[idomebutami]

Im going to let that settle in for a bit this morning.

Will reply shortly.

Thanks Chris

[Chris]

Hi David. If you want to get this, it would probably help to post more often. The whole point is to let me know where you are and for me to redirect the inquiry if focus has drifted off "the gate". Simple as that. If you look close enough in the correct direction, you can't miss it. Drift in the wrong direction and you can wander for years. The journey may be compelling and enjoyable, but if you're here, supposedly you were looking to bypass the "scenic route" :)

[idomebutami]

Understandable. I try not to make it a habit to respond unless there is a response within me. These contemplations take time.

I am stuck at the point of the witness. I beleive I am the witness because I have yet to imbue a perspective that "shows" me otherwise. At some point, this has to become about shifting perspectives. Actions from the believed perspective of a person prolonges suffering, whereas actions from the perspective of space and presence do the opposite. Why else are we here if not to shift?

I understand that this website promotes a no bs approach to passing thru the gate, but I have to be met where I am at in order to see it for what it is and then go beyond it. (pardon the imagery).

I am always looking directly when I report back to you, but there is a paradigm shift required in order for me to stop believing in my self as a person.

[Chris]

Understandable. I try not to make it a habit to respond unless there is a response within me. These contemplations take time.

A story you currently believe.

I am stuck at the point of the witness. I beleive I am the witness because I have yet to imbue a perspective that "shows" me otherwise. At some point, this has to become about shifting perspectives. Actions from the believed perspective of a person prolonges suffering, whereas actions from the perspective of space and presence do the opposite. Why else are we here if not to shift?

A story you currently believe.

I understand that this website promotes a no bs approach to passing thru the gate, but I have to be met where I am at in order to see it for what it is and then go beyond it. (pardon the imagery).

A story you currently believe.

I am always looking directly when I report back to you, but there is a paradigm shift required in order for me to stop believing in my self as a person.

You are defending your current beliefs instead of getting this done. What are you trying to protect? What you say is based on beliefs and assumptions. For example: "there is a paradigm shift required in order for me to stop believing in my self as a person". How do you know that this is a true statement?

[idomebutami]

There is zero defense occurring, there is nothing I am protecting. I am ready, I am just "stuck".

So if all of my ideas of witness's, being stuck, paradigms etc...are all just beliefs, than where does that leave me?

I am sitting on my couch typing and reading these words. There is a sense of self attached to this action of course, but I can't say that this experience is saturated with ego or personhood. But I am of course writing from the seeker...I can feel this. But if I look directly, no seeker can be found. I see this clearly. This seeing leaves me with only a sense of presence, but it still feels local and personal...like this idea of myself is present...and I'm not just Presence...or whatever...

[Chris]

There is zero defense occurring, there is nothing I am protecting. I am ready, I am just "stuck".

You are stuck because you assume that a perspective shift where the sense of self disappears is the point of this inquiry. You are not looking at the gate, you are distracted by this assumption.

So if all of my ideas of witness's, being stuck, paradigms etc...are all just beliefs, than where does that leave me?

You don't exist. You are just another one of those ideas/beliefs.

I am sitting on my couch typing and reading these words.

You are doing no such thing, you do not exist. There is sitting and typing and reading. There is no you doing them.

There is a sense of self attached to this action of course, but I can't say that this experience is saturated with ego or personhood. But I am of course writing from the seeker...I can feel this. But if I look directly, no seeker can be found. I see this clearly. This seeing leaves me with only a sense of presence, but it still feels local and personal...like this idea of myself is present...and I'm not just Presence...or whatever...

Is the idea of "myself" more than a fleeting thought? Is "local" just a thought? Is "personal" just a thought? Do these thoughts accurately describe what's going on or do they create a sense of self? If there is no thought occurring, do you exist? If there is no thought, does a sense of self exist? Check in your direct experience. Don't think about it and try to reason it out, just observe how experience actually plays out.

[idomebutami]

There is sitting and typing and reading. There is no you doing them.

Lets please focus on this, for I am "certain" from my current perspective, that "I"..( whatever that is) am doing the reading and writing...

[Chris]

Observe the process of reading. Where does the decision to read something come from? What effort is required to do the actual physical act of reading? The actual process of comprehension? Where is the owner, the doer that controls this process? Again, don’t reason it out, actually observe the process. Please let me know what you observe.

[idomebutami]

I just observed that comprehension happens almost before i consciously realize it... Its like, the "me who is reading", is riding on the back of the otherwise timeless comprehension that is occuring...

[Chris]

I just observed that comprehension happens almost before i consciously realize it... Its like, the "me who is reading", is riding on the back of the otherwise timeless comprehension that is occuring...

Is there actually a "me who is reading", or is it just a thought? Closely observe the process with anything you can think of. Thoughts, actions, etc. and see if there is a me doing them.

[Chris]

Hi, any new insights? I'm interested to see what you've found!

[idomebutami]

Hi Chris. My body has been shut down from a head and chest cold for the last 3 days.

Like some of your previous posts, im trying to allow them to soak into my everyday experiences. Now that im feeling better I will be examining my direct experiences as closely as possible to see if I can find anyone there. Its an alien concept of course...but I suppose after a while this new "stance" of denouncing any possible "doer" of actions will eventually become the locust of my awareness/focus?

Dont mean to be so cerebral, I think its the cold meds. :)

[idomebutami]

And while I'm thinking about this, one catching point for me is volition. To me...volition is like an actionable awareness of sorts. Through volition I move my hand from point A to point B. So within those mechanisms, there is volition as directed by this I-ness in order to accomplish some goal. Ive read that all actions are like the falling of leaves from trees, its just natural and happening. But I still feel like "I"...thru volition, am responsible for moving my hand from point A to point B.

[Chris]

Like some of your previous posts, im trying to allow them to soak into my everyday experiences. Now that im feeling better I will be examining my direct experiences as closely as possible to see if I can find anyone there. Its an alien concept of course...but I suppose after a while this new "stance" of denouncing any possible "doer" of actions will eventually become the locust of my awareness/focus?

It's not about denouncing to possibility of the doer, but seeing if you can actually find one.

And while I'm thinking about this, one catching point for me is volition. To me...volition is like an actionable awareness of sorts. Through volition I move my hand from point A to point B. So within those mechanisms, there is volition as directed by this I-ness in order to accomplish some goal. Ive read that all actions are like the falling of leaves from trees, its just natural and happening. But I still feel like "I"...thru volition, am responsible for moving my hand from point A to point B.

Do you consciously orchestrate the movement of the muscles required to move your hand from point A to point B? And where did the idea to move your hand from point A to point B come form in the first place?

[idomebutami]

Man ill tell ya, im sitting here watching my hand move from a to b and it truly does feel like I am engaging the shoulder muscle that will lift my arm, and then through volition I rotate it 1 foot to the left.

I think i am missing something, and it probably stems from the very strong belief that I am the body..