Help Needed

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NontheisticBuddhist
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Re: Help Needed

Postby NontheisticBuddhist » Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:35 am

Regardless of whether you have 'seen it or not', is there anyone there that can see it or not see it?
Nope.
Regardless of whether you respond the same way you always do or not, is there anything there to respond or notice the response?
Well, there's nobody who is there to respond to or notice the response, but the mind is capable of recognizing the pattern (at first I just put no, but I wanted to clarify. After all, if there was nothing there to notice the response (and the pattern of responses), how would it have arisen in conscious attention?)).
Regardless of whether you have glimpses, or non-glimpses, or whatever form experience may take, is it clear that there is No YOU whatsoever... anywhere... in any form.... EVER?
Yeah. I'm not always aware of it, especially when my mind wanders, but once I bring my focus back it's clear.

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cosmiK
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Re: Help Needed

Postby cosmiK » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:14 am

Well, there's nobody who is there to respond to or notice the response, but the mind is capable of recognizing the pattern (at first I just put no, but I wanted to clarify. After all, if there was nothing there to notice the response (and the pattern of responses), how would it have arisen in conscious attention?)).
Just to be clear, I am not saying there is no noticing of anything, even those things we label patterns of responses. I am also not saying that there aren't any arising that appear to appear. Appearances appear and we label it 'mind' and focus like a lens on certain aspects of Experience and analyze it. Is it clear that even though there are appearances... that they do NOT appear to anyone or anything, even a 'mind'. Is it clear that what we call 'mind' is simply a label over an Alive Expression?

Ask yourself this... does there have to be a perceiver to perceive? What if perceptions perceived themselves? What if everything around you is self-aware, non-dual, shifting and Alive? but who cares about what I just said. DROP IT, and LOOK and SEE for yourself.
Yeah. I'm not always aware of it, especially when my mind wanders, but once I bring my focus back it's clear.
regardless of whether a 'mind' is perceived as wandering or in the present or lost in itself, is it clear that there is no actual entity called 'mind' and no You to own it?
is it clear that there is no you to bring focus back, and focus just happens.

is it clear that there is nothing to be clear about? there is No You :) Is it True?
LOOK & SEE. Want the Truth more than anything else and burn for it. do you want it?

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NontheisticBuddhist
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Re: Help Needed

Postby NontheisticBuddhist » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:21 am

Is it clear that what we call 'mind' is simply a label over an Alive Expression?
Yes.
Ask yourself this... does there have to be a perceiver to perceive? What if perceptions perceived themselves? What if everything around you is self-aware, non-dual, shifting and Alive?
http://i.imgur.com/Nf82K.gif
is it clear that there is no actual entity called 'mind' and no You to own it? is it clear that there is no you to bring focus back, and focus just happens.
Yes.
is it clear that there is nothing to be clear about?
Sort of.
there is No You :) Is it True?
Yeah.
Want the Truth more than anything else and burn for it. do you want it?
Yes.

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cosmiK
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Re: Help Needed

Postby cosmiK » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:26 am

Sort of
What do you need to be clear about? or what is not clear?

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NontheisticBuddhist
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Re: Help Needed

Postby NontheisticBuddhist » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:36 am

is it clear that there is nothing to be clear about?
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this.

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cosmiK
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Re: Help Needed

Postby cosmiK » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:38 am

that's fine. are you sure that there is no self though?

where are you at. talk to me.

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NontheisticBuddhist
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Re: Help Needed

Postby NontheisticBuddhist » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:43 am

I feel a bit mentally congested... Lots of thoughts and sensations and associations and everything flying through my head and my thoughts always try to find a way to connect to this idea of no-self, but I can really only find ways to apply it to some, not all, of them. It's just a bit overwhelming and confusing all at once. And I WANT to say that I really get it, that everything makes sense now, but right now it just doesn't seem to.

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cosmiK
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Re: Help Needed

Postby cosmiK » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:54 am

just notice as all of this is happening. it is happening effortlessly and beautifully. notice thoughts comes and go, ideas twist and turn, sensations crunch and turn, feel feelings, allow it to crash and burn if it needs to. arms wide open and say "do your worst".
watch how it all happens... it's just happening... including the assumption that it is happening to someone who is overwhelmed and confused. watch it and look right at it. there is noone watching and looking. it's all happening spontaneously. don't fight it. allow it. including the assumption that there is a self. there is no self. let go.

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NontheisticBuddhist
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Re: Help Needed

Postby NontheisticBuddhist » Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:26 pm

Honestly I'm not really sure how to reply, but I think I get it.

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cosmiK
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Re: Help Needed

Postby cosmiK » Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:27 pm

Explain.

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NontheisticBuddhist
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Re: Help Needed

Postby NontheisticBuddhist » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:37 pm

Well, if through direct experience - seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling, and thinking - I can't locate a "me", and if I can't control my thoughts or feelings or sensations, then what is there left to be the self? I can't find it, it can't do anything, it's just a thought, which is part of the experience. The experiencer is an aspect of the experience, that's all.

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cosmiK
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Re: Help Needed

Postby cosmiK » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:44 pm

Yes, there is no such thing.

Let go of looking for a "me", and just LOOK & Notice. All of this is happening spontaneously. Including the reading of this sentence.

Are there any doubts? Do you see that there is no separate self? Was there ever?

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NontheisticBuddhist
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Re: Help Needed

Postby NontheisticBuddhist » Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:01 pm

No doubts, no separate self, and there never was.

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cosmiK
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Re: Help Needed

Postby cosmiK » Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:06 pm

Okay...

so what is different Now? when did SEEing happen? How can you tell and feel the difference between before SEEing this?

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NontheisticBuddhist
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Re: Help Needed

Postby NontheisticBuddhist » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:26 pm

As far as I can tell, nothing's different now. The "SEEing" wasn't an event or something I can specifically point to, just an understanding. As I said, if I can't sense me at all using my senses or thoughts, then there is no real evidence for me as anything other than a concept, so it follows that "me" is just a part of the experience. I can't tell and feel much of a difference between before and after seeing this; everything is pretty much the same.


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