Good work investigating.
Labelling itself, is it automatic? Are you in control of it?
Can it be here labelling stuff? Do you need to try to fight it away?
Yes, there is body that is sensing it's environment. Just like body of a cat or dog or any other animal.
But does this body need a manager to tell it what to do and when? Or reactions and actions simply arise together and within situations.
What do you see here?
Sending love.
I would love to work with Ilona!
Re: I would love to work with Ilona!
See for yourself.
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Re: I would love to work with Ilona!
Yes, labeling is definitely automatic and I am not in control of it. When I investigate into whether the labeling can be here without a need to fight it away, I find that I go in and out of these two possibilities: letting it just be and wishing for it to stop...
Looking at it seems really simple: Yes,there is a body sensing it's environment. And no, this body do not need a manager to tell it what to do - this body will do what it needs to do anyhow and the manager is superfluous! Living this insight, though, is harder exactly because I more often than not believe the commentator to have an important role (old habit). So what I see as possible for the moment is just practicing letting the labeling be there without paying much attention to it. And keep investigating into the illusions of a me every time I remember to do it... It seems like a very gradual process...
Love
Kjersti
Looking at it seems really simple: Yes,there is a body sensing it's environment. And no, this body do not need a manager to tell it what to do - this body will do what it needs to do anyhow and the manager is superfluous! Living this insight, though, is harder exactly because I more often than not believe the commentator to have an important role (old habit). So what I see as possible for the moment is just practicing letting the labeling be there without paying much attention to it. And keep investigating into the illusions of a me every time I remember to do it... It seems like a very gradual process...
Love
Kjersti
Re: I would love to work with Ilona!
All it really takes is one focused look.
Is it you that is looking or looking is happening?
Is there anything behind the label I?
Can this I wake up, can it see through illusion of I?
Can Santa wake up and see through illusion of Santa being real?
Is there I that believes?
Is there I that remembers?
Is there I to which the process is happening?
Getting closer...
Sending love.
Is it you that is looking or looking is happening?
Is there anything behind the label I?
Can this I wake up, can it see through illusion of I?
Can Santa wake up and see through illusion of Santa being real?
Is there I that believes?
Is there I that remembers?
Is there I to which the process is happening?
Getting closer...
Sending love.
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
Re: I would love to work with Ilona!
"All it really takes is one focused look." - Good to hear and be reminded of! When I read what I wrote yesterday, I see the illusion of "I" hiding in the text, and there is a feeling of resignation: like facing a gradual process going on for ever and ever - just another way of keeping the "I"-illusion alive!
Looking is happening, there is no me looking. There is nothing behind the label I, which makes it impossible for an "I" to wake up, the "I" cannot see through the illusion of I - it is a creation of fantasy, and has no power to either think or do. There is no I to remember (there is only remembering), there is no I to which the process is happening. If there is an I there is separation - somebody being done something to, or somebody doing something to someone...
Right now there is tiredness, plain, simple tiredness - and the tiredness is there whether the commentator try to contribute the tiredness to a "me" or not. What is true is that the tiredness is here, what is not true is that there is a me being tired - the me is just something extra put on top of the experience.
Thank you for your patience, Ilona! And thank you for your encouraging words "getting closer..."
Love Kjersti
Looking is happening, there is no me looking. There is nothing behind the label I, which makes it impossible for an "I" to wake up, the "I" cannot see through the illusion of I - it is a creation of fantasy, and has no power to either think or do. There is no I to remember (there is only remembering), there is no I to which the process is happening. If there is an I there is separation - somebody being done something to, or somebody doing something to someone...
Right now there is tiredness, plain, simple tiredness - and the tiredness is there whether the commentator try to contribute the tiredness to a "me" or not. What is true is that the tiredness is here, what is not true is that there is a me being tired - the me is just something extra put on top of the experience.
Thank you for your patience, Ilona! And thank you for your encouraging words "getting closer..."
Love Kjersti
Re: I would love to work with Ilona!
now i see that you are looking right at it. beautifully described and expressed.
how does it feel to see that i is an illusion? what feelings arise when you stare at it?
much love to you.
how does it feel to see that i is an illusion? what feelings arise when you stare at it?
much love to you.
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
Re: I would love to work with Ilona!
I read what you wrote and what I wrote a few times.
Then I closed my eyes and started noticing what feelings and sensations were arising. Suddenly there were this yielding sensation in the body, a relaxation of the muscles, the body feeling really heavy but not in an unpleasant way... It is still going on while writing this.
In this moment, to see that I is an illusion feels like melting... The commentator is still doing its thing - it says: "what shall I write, Ilona is writing that I am looking right at it! Cool! But how can I know that this really is seeing through the illusion? Is it different now then other times I have seen through the illusion or at least thought I did?" etc, etc.
And beside this commenting activity going on now and then, there is this melting sensation, this hearing the footsteps of my husband going from the bedroom to the kitchen and back again. And right now this seems more real and interesting than the commentators comments, because the I/commentator cannot know if I am seeing through the illusion or not, it does not have this faculty - it is basically the wrong "person" to ask :-) just like you would not ask a blind person to describe the scenery in front of you, because you know the blind does not have the faculty to do so! So no point in listening to the commentator in these matters.
My husband starts talking to me in the middle of this investigation and writing, there is frustration arising, there is an urge for concentration. I tell him that I am in the middle of writing something - and he says - oh, okey! I start to explain why, and then stop myself after two words of explanation. He has already understood, and there is no need for me to say anything more about it. What I see from this is that frustration arises and points at what is needed in the moment - concentration was needed. Nothing wrong about that - it just is what it is...
Okey, I am going to bed now. And if I ask myself if I feel different now, and see things different, if I have been liberated now - the commentator starts talking again. So right now I just want to take a shower and feel the warm water and then go to bed...
Goodnight to you, Ilona and thank you so much for your time, penetrating questions and your warm support :-)
Love, Kjersti
Then I closed my eyes and started noticing what feelings and sensations were arising. Suddenly there were this yielding sensation in the body, a relaxation of the muscles, the body feeling really heavy but not in an unpleasant way... It is still going on while writing this.
In this moment, to see that I is an illusion feels like melting... The commentator is still doing its thing - it says: "what shall I write, Ilona is writing that I am looking right at it! Cool! But how can I know that this really is seeing through the illusion? Is it different now then other times I have seen through the illusion or at least thought I did?" etc, etc.
And beside this commenting activity going on now and then, there is this melting sensation, this hearing the footsteps of my husband going from the bedroom to the kitchen and back again. And right now this seems more real and interesting than the commentators comments, because the I/commentator cannot know if I am seeing through the illusion or not, it does not have this faculty - it is basically the wrong "person" to ask :-) just like you would not ask a blind person to describe the scenery in front of you, because you know the blind does not have the faculty to do so! So no point in listening to the commentator in these matters.
My husband starts talking to me in the middle of this investigation and writing, there is frustration arising, there is an urge for concentration. I tell him that I am in the middle of writing something - and he says - oh, okey! I start to explain why, and then stop myself after two words of explanation. He has already understood, and there is no need for me to say anything more about it. What I see from this is that frustration arises and points at what is needed in the moment - concentration was needed. Nothing wrong about that - it just is what it is...
Okey, I am going to bed now. And if I ask myself if I feel different now, and see things different, if I have been liberated now - the commentator starts talking again. So right now I just want to take a shower and feel the warm water and then go to bed...
Goodnight to you, Ilona and thank you so much for your time, penetrating questions and your warm support :-)
Love, Kjersti
Re: I would love to work with Ilona!
Feels like melting :)
Yes, commentator has no understanding of direct experience, it is a wrong person to ask. But it's good at describing what is seen, so we can communicate.
Tell me, can you say, that it has been seen through the illusion of separation, illusion if I ?
How certain is your answer?
Is there anything else that needs to be understood?
Sending love.
Yes, commentator has no understanding of direct experience, it is a wrong person to ask. But it's good at describing what is seen, so we can communicate.
Tell me, can you say, that it has been seen through the illusion of separation, illusion if I ?
How certain is your answer?
Is there anything else that needs to be understood?
Sending love.
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
Re: I would love to work with Ilona!
I really saw through one more important illusion around the "I" yesterday evening when reading your post and answering it. I really saw that the "I" cannot wake up and see through the illusion of "I". And that there is no "I" to which the "process of liberation" is happening - liberty is already here, it has always been and will always be. The only difference is seeing through the illusion of a "me" that needs to be liberated - because that is just another way to strive for something, another way of keeping the illusion alive...
As a consequence, the "pull" of the commentator has weakened, it has been degraded, but not disgraced :-) Or more precise; now seen for what it is! Like you write: "The commentator has no understanding of direct experience...but it's good at describing what is seen, so we can communicate." Yes, so there is cooperation and interaction happening. But the commentator still has a lot of questions concerning the new balance between "them" :-) And when the questioning gets going there is also a noticing and a spaciousness - so a difference since yesterday is that it is more of this noticing and spaciousness going on.
I am not totally certain that I am through, yet! The "hold" of the commentator has definitely weakened, but the hold is not totally gone - hmm... wait a minute, now it is happening again! And I want to ask "myself": Where is the "I" that the commentator can "hold" on to? There is no "I" that it can hold on to - it is only the illusion of an I that can be held on to. Okey - see what I mean? It is not like it is crisp and clear for me every minute that the "I" is an illusion - I do some pirouettes like this every now and then - can this be said to be seeing through the illusion of separation? I am not sure! And I still get triggered, like this morning I got angry with my four year old son - so old patterns still get triggered, and the commentator gets going - getting a hold on "me" - and then the witnessing quality of just being kicks in and there is peace. In and out of these two modalities - believing in separateness and then seeing through the illusion...
So maybe you can help me clarify if this oscillation is a "normal" part of seeing through the illusion of "I", or if it indicates that there is more that needs to be seen around it. Hm, feeling a bit stupid writing the last part of that sentence, because I am sure there is always more to see - but I'll ask it anyway...
Thank you for your time and sending you a bunch of love
Kjersti
As a consequence, the "pull" of the commentator has weakened, it has been degraded, but not disgraced :-) Or more precise; now seen for what it is! Like you write: "The commentator has no understanding of direct experience...but it's good at describing what is seen, so we can communicate." Yes, so there is cooperation and interaction happening. But the commentator still has a lot of questions concerning the new balance between "them" :-) And when the questioning gets going there is also a noticing and a spaciousness - so a difference since yesterday is that it is more of this noticing and spaciousness going on.
I am not totally certain that I am through, yet! The "hold" of the commentator has definitely weakened, but the hold is not totally gone - hmm... wait a minute, now it is happening again! And I want to ask "myself": Where is the "I" that the commentator can "hold" on to? There is no "I" that it can hold on to - it is only the illusion of an I that can be held on to. Okey - see what I mean? It is not like it is crisp and clear for me every minute that the "I" is an illusion - I do some pirouettes like this every now and then - can this be said to be seeing through the illusion of separation? I am not sure! And I still get triggered, like this morning I got angry with my four year old son - so old patterns still get triggered, and the commentator gets going - getting a hold on "me" - and then the witnessing quality of just being kicks in and there is peace. In and out of these two modalities - believing in separateness and then seeing through the illusion...
So maybe you can help me clarify if this oscillation is a "normal" part of seeing through the illusion of "I", or if it indicates that there is more that needs to be seen around it. Hm, feeling a bit stupid writing the last part of that sentence, because I am sure there is always more to see - but I'll ask it anyway...
Thank you for your time and sending you a bunch of love
Kjersti
Re: I would love to work with Ilona!
Thank you for answer. :)
You say, you still get triggered. This is happening naturaly as there are still a lot of beliefs in the system. Seeing through illusion of I is punching the hole right trough the center of the structure, but that does not mean that all beliefs, attachments and conditioning vanishes immediately. Imagine there is a huge wave of tsunami and it hits a shore, once the wave goes back, there is a lot of damage, a lot of stuff to clear up where solid structures used to be. Same with seeing through illusion- the core is knocked out, all that was connected to it has to be cleared. So mind keeps checking in each situation if its true. It looks over and over again till it no longer needs to check, then this going back and forth drops too. It may take weeks or months. Everyone is different. But going back and forth does not mean that gate wasn't crossed, quite the opposite :)
If you look at others, your family, what do you see? Are there individual entities there?
Sending love.
You say, you still get triggered. This is happening naturaly as there are still a lot of beliefs in the system. Seeing through illusion of I is punching the hole right trough the center of the structure, but that does not mean that all beliefs, attachments and conditioning vanishes immediately. Imagine there is a huge wave of tsunami and it hits a shore, once the wave goes back, there is a lot of damage, a lot of stuff to clear up where solid structures used to be. Same with seeing through illusion- the core is knocked out, all that was connected to it has to be cleared. So mind keeps checking in each situation if its true. It looks over and over again till it no longer needs to check, then this going back and forth drops too. It may take weeks or months. Everyone is different. But going back and forth does not mean that gate wasn't crossed, quite the opposite :)
If you look at others, your family, what do you see? Are there individual entities there?
Sending love.
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
Re: I would love to work with Ilona!
Thank you so much! Your answer was really clarifying!
Interesting question - yes, how do I look at others? My 4-year old boy, for example? Is there a "me" governing his actions, feelings and thoughts? In a newborn baby, there is no me-illusion. There is just this being-a-baby, feeling hunger, feeling full, feeling warmth etc - no "me" on top of the experience - just pure experience with reactions arising when needed. And the baby is doing just fine without this "me-structure". So what is real, is the baby and when the baby grows older being exposed to the parents "I"-identification, learns to adapt, and "find" their own "me" - but this is just a thought-construction and not something real. So my son is real as can be :-) he is there laughing, drawing, running, screaming, crying, smiling AND there is no "me" governing all this - it is happening whether there is a "me" put on top of it or not.
So if there is no "me" governing my feelings, sensations and thoughts and no "me" governing my sons or my husband's feelings, sensations and thoughts - how does the world look? From this perspective, getting into an argument is my commentator getting into an argument with my husbands commentator. Seeing it this way gives me this cartoon-feeling; two fictitious figures playing out a drama - not seeing that there is nobody doing anything to anybody.
I'll keep investigating into this... Goodnight to you, Ilona
Interesting question - yes, how do I look at others? My 4-year old boy, for example? Is there a "me" governing his actions, feelings and thoughts? In a newborn baby, there is no me-illusion. There is just this being-a-baby, feeling hunger, feeling full, feeling warmth etc - no "me" on top of the experience - just pure experience with reactions arising when needed. And the baby is doing just fine without this "me-structure". So what is real, is the baby and when the baby grows older being exposed to the parents "I"-identification, learns to adapt, and "find" their own "me" - but this is just a thought-construction and not something real. So my son is real as can be :-) he is there laughing, drawing, running, screaming, crying, smiling AND there is no "me" governing all this - it is happening whether there is a "me" put on top of it or not.
So if there is no "me" governing my feelings, sensations and thoughts and no "me" governing my sons or my husband's feelings, sensations and thoughts - how does the world look? From this perspective, getting into an argument is my commentator getting into an argument with my husbands commentator. Seeing it this way gives me this cartoon-feeling; two fictitious figures playing out a drama - not seeing that there is nobody doing anything to anybody.
I'll keep investigating into this... Goodnight to you, Ilona
Re: I would love to work with Ilona!
yes, good stuff. the arguments are not personal. is anything personal at all? if so, what?
sending love.
sending love.
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
Re: I would love to work with Ilona!
Hallo, Ilona - still at work late at night, going home now, so will investigate on the bus home and report tomorrow!
Love Kjersti
Love Kjersti
Re: I would love to work with Ilona!
No, if there is no me, no personality there - there can't be anything personal!
The manager/commentator has the tendency of questioning reality - is this good or bad, do I like it or not? And it is this tendency to break things up, making the stream of life into entities that can be sorted out and managed that the personality is made of! I identify with this and not with that - and that is definitely not me etc. Then when other personalities sees it different then I do - I get hurt, angry or disappointed - or if other personalities sees it the way I see it, I get happy, feel safe etc. In this "game" everything IS very personal, indeed! And my happiness depends on outer circumstances - a roller coaster life!
When the commentator no longer is in the foreground, everything stops being personal! Then whatever comes my way is an expression of life. And everything becomes interesting - hm, interesting point of view, yeah, lets look into it - is it true? No, that thought seemed true for a minute, but looking closer it might as well be the other way around! Fun, actually :-)
So I go in and out of these two ways of being in the world...
Love
Kjersti
The manager/commentator has the tendency of questioning reality - is this good or bad, do I like it or not? And it is this tendency to break things up, making the stream of life into entities that can be sorted out and managed that the personality is made of! I identify with this and not with that - and that is definitely not me etc. Then when other personalities sees it different then I do - I get hurt, angry or disappointed - or if other personalities sees it the way I see it, I get happy, feel safe etc. In this "game" everything IS very personal, indeed! And my happiness depends on outer circumstances - a roller coaster life!
When the commentator no longer is in the foreground, everything stops being personal! Then whatever comes my way is an expression of life. And everything becomes interesting - hm, interesting point of view, yeah, lets look into it - is it true? No, that thought seemed true for a minute, but looking closer it might as well be the other way around! Fun, actually :-)
So I go in and out of these two ways of being in the world...
Love
Kjersti
Re: I would love to work with Ilona!
This comes from logic.No, if there is no me, no personality there - there can't be anything personal!
Look now if it's true in reality. Look deeper, see how everything is interdependent and arise simultaneously. This person says this that person reacts, on other one laughts etc.
it's all one play with apparent separate roles. But look at the whole space including environment and the act. Nothing is separate. In reality, is there anything personal? Was there ever?
In the vision field, in hearing field, can you see, hear persons or just colours shaps and sounds? In the thinking field, are there persons or just words, images, all one flow of data? One story about many persons. Like one dream with many characters. One space in which all is perceived.
When you look at that which is looking, what is there?
Anything personal?
Much love.
See for yourself.
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
8-week guided self-inquiry experience → https://ilonaciunaite.com/8-week-program/
Re: I would love to work with Ilona!
Yes, true - what I wrote yesterday stemmed from logic, not from direct investigation into reality. Good to be reminded that there is no use in that :-)
You wrote: "In the vision field, in hearing field, can you see, hear persons or just colours shaps and sounds?"
No, I cannot see or hear persons - what I can see is as you write; colors, shapes and sounds! Looking at my youngest child, there are blue eyes, blond curly hair, chubby cheeks, movements, sounds, breathing, laughter, frustration, a holding onto my leg, running, more sounds, peeing, eating etc. etc - this is all very real and tangible. But when looking, I cannot see a "person" there. I can think that there is a person there - and the thought "my child is a person" is real. Because thoughts are real - they come and go. But him being a person is not real - it is only a thought! So what I see right now, is that there is no connection between the thought "my child is a person" and there being a person there! Just because I think so does not make it true. Snap!
You wrote "In the thinking field, are there persons or just words, images, all one flow of data?"
No, I still cannot detect persons - there are words and thoughts coming from different bodies and still I cannot prove the thought: "There is a person within each of these bodies" All I can see when really looking is that the thought is there, but I cannot find a concrete corresponding person when looking for it... Like you say; thinking that Santa Clas is existing, does not make Santa Clas real!
Who is looking? Right now so difficult to answer. I'll start somewhere else: Who is beating my heart? It is obviously not "me"!!! I feel like making faces to the illusion of "I", saying: See here, you have to admit your limits!!! You cannot convince anybody having the ability and power to beat the heart - so here is a crack in your fucking illusion! Just look for yourself and die - once and for all! Stop trying to convince yourself of being in charge of anything - you are not! Your are not! You are not!!!!! The heart is just beating and the body is just breathing, dammit! I want to punch the illusion of "I" right in the nose!!! Shit - right now I am getting SO angry. Who is getting angry? Right now it seems like the illusion of "I" is at war with the illusion of "I"! The illusion of "I" wants to get rid of the illusion of "I" - which is impossible! It is impossible to get rid of something that is an illusion! So right now I am going down a dead end, letting the commentator lead me into warfare! It is so tempting! Shit, I am just trying too hard right now!
Okey, relax... Who is looking? Just describe what you see/feel/sense, plainly and phenomenologically - that is all there is to it... Okey, what I see is that there is looking, and there is an intensified awareness of the head and eye-area. That's it! There is looking and there is a sensation of an intensified feeling of seeing/knowing/being behind the forehead! It is not the same sensation in my legs, arms, torso, neck or lower face. It is as if the illusion of "I" draws strength from this location of intensified feeling of seeing/knowing/being behind my forehead! To me this feeling has been a proof of there being a "me" in the system. But right now, I see there is a missing link here - why on earth should this feeling just because it is familiar, have anything to do with the illusion of a "me"? It does not have to. It is just what it is - an intensified feeling of seeing/knowing/being behind the forehead/eye-area...
Hope this investigation made some sense to you, Ilona - if not, let me know. Right now, I just feel empty. Maybe this is how it feels leaving a battlefield - seeing the destructions and seeing how futile it is, fighting illusions...
It is getting very late, going to bed now. Feels good that you will read this and respond - just feeling vulnerable and a bit lost, though trusting that I am on my way, somehow... Goodnight, Ilona
Love, Kjersti
You wrote: "In the vision field, in hearing field, can you see, hear persons or just colours shaps and sounds?"
No, I cannot see or hear persons - what I can see is as you write; colors, shapes and sounds! Looking at my youngest child, there are blue eyes, blond curly hair, chubby cheeks, movements, sounds, breathing, laughter, frustration, a holding onto my leg, running, more sounds, peeing, eating etc. etc - this is all very real and tangible. But when looking, I cannot see a "person" there. I can think that there is a person there - and the thought "my child is a person" is real. Because thoughts are real - they come and go. But him being a person is not real - it is only a thought! So what I see right now, is that there is no connection between the thought "my child is a person" and there being a person there! Just because I think so does not make it true. Snap!
You wrote "In the thinking field, are there persons or just words, images, all one flow of data?"
No, I still cannot detect persons - there are words and thoughts coming from different bodies and still I cannot prove the thought: "There is a person within each of these bodies" All I can see when really looking is that the thought is there, but I cannot find a concrete corresponding person when looking for it... Like you say; thinking that Santa Clas is existing, does not make Santa Clas real!
Who is looking? Right now so difficult to answer. I'll start somewhere else: Who is beating my heart? It is obviously not "me"!!! I feel like making faces to the illusion of "I", saying: See here, you have to admit your limits!!! You cannot convince anybody having the ability and power to beat the heart - so here is a crack in your fucking illusion! Just look for yourself and die - once and for all! Stop trying to convince yourself of being in charge of anything - you are not! Your are not! You are not!!!!! The heart is just beating and the body is just breathing, dammit! I want to punch the illusion of "I" right in the nose!!! Shit - right now I am getting SO angry. Who is getting angry? Right now it seems like the illusion of "I" is at war with the illusion of "I"! The illusion of "I" wants to get rid of the illusion of "I" - which is impossible! It is impossible to get rid of something that is an illusion! So right now I am going down a dead end, letting the commentator lead me into warfare! It is so tempting! Shit, I am just trying too hard right now!
Okey, relax... Who is looking? Just describe what you see/feel/sense, plainly and phenomenologically - that is all there is to it... Okey, what I see is that there is looking, and there is an intensified awareness of the head and eye-area. That's it! There is looking and there is a sensation of an intensified feeling of seeing/knowing/being behind the forehead! It is not the same sensation in my legs, arms, torso, neck or lower face. It is as if the illusion of "I" draws strength from this location of intensified feeling of seeing/knowing/being behind my forehead! To me this feeling has been a proof of there being a "me" in the system. But right now, I see there is a missing link here - why on earth should this feeling just because it is familiar, have anything to do with the illusion of a "me"? It does not have to. It is just what it is - an intensified feeling of seeing/knowing/being behind the forehead/eye-area...
Hope this investigation made some sense to you, Ilona - if not, let me know. Right now, I just feel empty. Maybe this is how it feels leaving a battlefield - seeing the destructions and seeing how futile it is, fighting illusions...
It is getting very late, going to bed now. Feels good that you will read this and respond - just feeling vulnerable and a bit lost, though trusting that I am on my way, somehow... Goodnight, Ilona
Love, Kjersti
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