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[mag]

How can mind see no-self? I mean thought can't see no-thought. Maybe I am not communicating correctly here. Could you elaborate?

No, I did not say that mind can see no-self, but it can step out of the way of seeing. Mind can also make sense out of it, once seeing has happened. Otherwise, we would be not able to do this guiding here.

Are you saying even a thought of watcher will not arise once unreality is seen? Watcher or observer or I is just a thought from my understanding. I am just referring to popping up of a watcher thought and disappearing.

Thoughts will rise like before, even "I" thoughts. They are not believed, just seen as thoughts.

There is no belief supporting the "I". Arising and disappearing of the watcher thought is what I was trying to be clear on in my last post. Ajay is not needed as an "I" thought. I still respond to when someone calls my by name though, so Ajay label remains but not believed in.

Does your daily experience support that the belief in "I" has been lost? How is your experience different now than before the pop? How life looks like without Ajay?

[ajay]

No, I did not say that mind can see no-self, but it can step out of the way of seeing. Mind can also make sense out of it, once seeing has happened. Otherwise, we would be not able to do this guiding here.

That clarifies it.

Thoughts will rise like before, even "I" thoughts. They are not believed, just seen as thoughts.

I see that.

Does your daily experience support that the belief in "I" has been lost? How is your experience different now than before the pop? How life looks like without Ajay?

Life without Ajay is just the same life with a minor difference. That difference is basically ease of being. The words and situations that would have caused a turmoil and unease in the being are noticed and not believed. I would like give a few examples here.

There isn't much of an interest in planning, certainly there is a trust with life as you mentioned earlier. Planning is okay but it is okay if things don't turn out the way as planned. I have been noticing this just with day-to-day activities.

What I find interesting is that, doing happens and thinking just follows the doing. I will catch myself doing something first and noticing it just a moment later.

Here is one more example. Yesterday while riding bike through a trail I had to hit the breaks suddenly since someone just came across my path and I fell off the bike and hit the board walk. Normally this would have caused some panic but my response was amazingly normal. There was no blame on anyone. All is well, no one got hurt.

A rock hit my windshield while driving and left a minor crack, normally it would have bothered me but there is no trace.

Things like this would have normally left a bigger mark on Ajay but these are registered and then forgotten and there is no one to associate to the story. Story is there as I am writing these here but no one behind it.

I really don't have a date and time when this pop happened. Not even sure how and what happened. There was just subtle realization that there is no Ajay behind the doing / watching/ observing. This seems to make perfect sense since I have never really seen Ajay and No-Ajay seem to resolve many mystries. There was just a false point of reference called Ajay or "I" that was filtiering things based on beliefs.

[mag]

If you feel confident that you are DONE with the no-self puzzle, be free to answer the confirmation questions that I gave you earlier.

[ajay]

Certainly. I'll likely take sometime before responding to these in detail.

[ajay]

Here are my answers to LU confirmation questions.

1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There is no me. There never was, ever.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

The idea that there is someone here in this body as an entity or an operator or some separate self is a belief or a thought. This belief can also be called “I” or “me”.
How did it start? The idea that I am someone here was taken in at an early age to be true without questioning. e.g. Perhaps when a young child hear his or her name first time he/she has no idea what that sound is but by conditioning from parents and environment it starts to respond to that name. Also the child really doesn’t have enough intellect to question and reason with this idea.That is where the illusion start.

Once this idea that I am a separate self is taken to be true. All other beliefs are imposed upon it and taken to be true. Beliefs such as good or bad, right or wrong. “I” is the core belief on all other beliefs operate. e.g. if someone says something now it will run through this belief that if it is good or bad for me. If you are doing something you may think if it right or wrong.

Thoughts are coming and going as an overlay over what is already happening. Doing happens first and thought comes later that I am doing this.

3) How does it feel to see this?

It feels very ordinary. Unexpectedly ordinary. Disappointingly ordinary for the seeker.There is nothing special just my day-to-day experience with less of labelling and afterwards mental chattering. Realizing that labelling and thinking is independent of what is happening. Thoughts aren’t believed like before since there is no one here. In fact thoughts come and go just like before but they don’t stick around for long. Just an ease of being in the body. Events happening in the world and my day-to-day life aren’t taken so seriously and the residue effect from these is gone or reduced to just a noticing.

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion.

This will primarily depend on where someone is coming from and what their current experience is. But here are a few ways.

There is just life no you.
Who am I then? I know that I exist.
You are this aliveness or I-amness or awareness. It doesn’t even need a name.

You are not in-charge since you can’t start and stop your thoughts, body is functioning at it’s own. The idea that you are breathing, digesting the food, thinking aren’t true since you don’t have any control over these. You don’t have control because you don’t exist. You still function as a normal human being just not as some separate entity.

Everything is happening but no one doing it. Life is on an automatic mode. There is no doer just doing.

Look into your direct experience. If you pay close attention you will find many discrepancies in own your story. Just like if you are in a dream and start paying attention, you will start to question things you see and experience. And then you realize that it is just a dream and you wake up.

Mind is a great tool but there is no identity there that’s why it can be frustrating to keep looking for someone and something. Once you consider the possibility that there is no you and apply it to your direct experience then it will confirm itself if it true.

You think you are the main character of the story and you are experiencing everything, but then you realize that you as a charater are not real and so are all the other characters. Everything remains as is just not taken so seriously.

This story is one way I may describe this.
“I walked into a movie theatre and there I was watching the movie and enjoying it and experiencing characters’ emotions, suddenly I find myself in the movie, now the movie becomes very much real and I am the main character. What is real and what is unreal (movie) has morphed into one. Now things are coming directly at me.I am going through ups and downs of the character. Soon I find myself tired of all the actions and drama, it is causing a turmoil. I want to get out of the movie. Then the cleaning guy at the movie theatres comes and speaks to me “Sir movie is over!” Then I realize it was just a dream and I fell asleep during the movie. Don’t know when and how I got caught up in the movie and fell asleep. I see that I am not real, I don’t exist as separate me, everything is same as before I walked into the movie theatre but different. As I walk out of movie theatre. There is a lightness body while walking. There are a few tears and smiles for the character as I walk forward.”

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Pointing out the inner division in situations of turmoil and pointing out of a story behind the sensation is what made me see this. There was an emotional turmoil caused by a situation which was clearly on automatic mode. It really made me question that what was going on there. I am not doing anything then what is it that is causing this emotional turmoil. It was pointed out to me that there is some belief operating behind the situation of the turmoil. Also it was pointed out that there is no-self. I was able to see from auto-mode of turmoil and concept of no-self that there is no one here. Concept of no-self help see that there no one here. This thing (called life) is operating at its own without any operator, there is no-self.

Prior to coming to LU: I have had a realization several months ago that helped me understood that I am not the body but this aliveness and awareness that is here, but the idea of someone being here as a witness or observer remained. I thought the witness and witnessing will resolve through some experience. Also at the same time there were many sensations in the body that created a story of unfolding of realization. But coming to LU made me realize that there is no witness and just witnessing the idea of waiting for an experience to resolve this witness was false. Since witness or separate self never existed.

[mag]

Hi Ajay,

You were confirmed by three fellow guides, congratulations! It was pleasure to work with you! I will send you a private message about groups that we have in Facebook, etc.