So ready…

[Elad]

Hey Elad
I hope this finds you well.

I’ve been working at stuff and have something I’d like to iron out if you can help please. It’s not a direct pointing type issue so if you can’t help that’s ok (I’m also coming back to the seeing through self bit)…

Quandry - self enquiry appeals to me, practising not going to my mind for a response to questions like, ‘who’s suffering’ and ‘where am I’, ‘who am I’ etc. BUT my wasps nest hyper mind might allow me 2 seconds before it’s off narrating a conversation or writing an email or replaying something I watched on tv. So I can’t do this or any type of quiet, contemplative stuff which I feel instinctively would really help to me.

On the other hand I am learning that a big part (if not all) of this process is to accept what is, which I’m getting better at. But accepting what is would include my inability to get peace or quiet my mind, in this case, how on earth can I go deep enough to realise the truth? The alternative seems to be to stay as I am, selfing forever.

Does that make sense?

Any guidance would be much appreciated as always 🙏🏻

Hi Liz. The patterns you describe do not get in the way. See it's only patterns.

If you are sincere about the inquiry part set aside significant periods of time often to sit and practice as best you can. Don't worry about getting lost a lot. Your only job is to set aside significant periods (30 min, 1 hour etc), sith with no external distraction, and keep looking, doing your best: what is controlling the thoughts? What is controlling the internal voice?

If you don't set aside time you might want to question what that says about what is really going on in terms of motivation.

[Whizzer1]

I do at least a 30 min session daily as well as short sessions in the day if I can, just for a couple of minutes here and there if work permits a bit of breathing space.

Some days in my 30 min session I use a guided meditation but more often these days I try just to sit and be.

I was actually starting to wonder if I should drop my ‘medication’ as I was feeling like I was wasting my time and could perhaps be better served reading more books or listening to more teachings, so I’m so glad I asked you about this.

I be will continue to sit and be and will ask who is controlling the thoughts and the narration.

I’m not sure what you mean by patterns tho, sorry if I’m being dim!

And just one last clarification on this, should I be learning to accept (love?) my bonkers mind or is it ok to want to change it?

Sorry, one more! If I’m accepting what is, when I catch my mind wandering, should I not try to stop it?

[Elad]

I do at least a 30 min session daily as well as short sessions in the day if I can, just for a couple of minutes here and there if work permits a bit of breathing space.

Some days in my 30 min session I use a guided meditation but more often these days I try just to sit and be.

I was actually starting to wonder if I should drop my ‘medication’ as I was feeling like I was wasting my time and could perhaps be better served reading more books or listening to more teachings, so I’m so glad I asked you about this.

I be will continue to sit and be and will ask who is controlling the thoughts and the narration.

I’m not sure what you mean by patterns tho, sorry if I’m being dim!

And just one last clarification on this, should I be learning to accept (love?) my bonkers mind or is it ok to want to change it?

Sorry, one more! If I’m accepting what is, when I catch my mind wandering, should I not try to stop it?

WHAT believes clarity is needed on all this? What concocts so many conceptualizations of questions? What chooses to induge the belief that answers to these questions must be had?

[Elad]

I do at least a 30 min session daily as well as short sessions in the day if I can, just for a couple of minutes here and there if work permits a bit of breathing space.

Some days in my 30 min session I use a guided meditation but more often these days I try just to sit and be.

I was actually starting to wonder if I should drop my ‘medication’ as I was feeling like I was wasting my time and could perhaps be better served reading more books or listening to more teachings, so I’m so glad I asked you about this.

I be will continue to sit and be and will ask who is controlling the thoughts and the narration.

I’m not sure what you mean by patterns tho, sorry if I’m being dim!

And just one last clarification on this, should I be learning to accept (love?) my bonkers mind or is it ok to want to change it?

Sorry, one more! If I’m accepting what is, when I catch my mind wandering, should I not try to stop it?

WHAT believes clarity is needed on all this? What concocts so many conceptualizations of questions? What chooses to induge the belief that answers to these questions must be had?

I would be willing to do one live meeting without payment, to support the process. Let me know if you want it.

[Whizzer1]

WHAT believes clarity is needed on all this? What concocts so many conceptualizations of questions? What chooses to induge the belief that answers to these questions must be had?

I understand where you’re coming from here but at the same time I want to use my time wisely and not focus on stuff I don’t need to and/or miss stuff that would be useful.

For example, I could keep spending my meditations trying to calm my mind or that might be pointless and I should just allow it to do what it wants.

I would be willing to do one live meeting without payment, to support the process. Let me know if you want it.

You are very kind. Yes yes yes please!!!!!!

[Whizzer1]

One more thing.

I wanted to test my ‘seeing status’ if you like, or try to somehow gauge where I was at on the non-path to the gate and so I tried to feel backwards - can I un-believe what I now claim to believe? - and I couldn’t. To go back to believing I’m in control won’t work. It’s seen as a nonsense. I actually felt a contraction in my body, a no, which felt like it validated me, but then I realised I shouldn’t need validation so I’m under no illusion there is still work to do!

I also see how foolish but understandable it was to think I needed to be alert to non-self every minute of every day before I could see. It’s just very gradually becoming bedded in more and more each day. Tiny amounts but nonetheless noticeable.

Anyway, thanks for reading, just wanted to update you on that 🙂

[Elad]

One more thing.

I wanted to test my ‘seeing status’ if you like, or try to somehow gauge where I was at on the non-path to the gate and so I tried to feel backwards - can I un-believe what I now claim to believe? - and I couldn’t. To go back to believing I’m in control won’t work. It’s seen as a nonsense. I actually felt a contraction in my body, a no, which felt like it validated me, but then I realised I shouldn’t need validation so I’m under no illusion there is still work to do!

I also see how foolish but understandable it was to think I needed to be alert to non-self every minute of every day before I could see. It’s just very gradually becoming bedded in more and more each day. Tiny amounts but nonetheless noticeable.

Anyway, thanks for reading, just wanted to update you on that 🙂

Great!

Send an email to eladexplore1111@gmail.com

We can coordinate time there. I can already say tomorrow 11 noon time central European time is an option. Just answer that on email. Lets keep this thread for inquiry.

[Whizzer1]

Hey Elad
I’ve sat twice since we spoke. This morning I re-listened to our call and tried to sit with the confusion we discussed, along with anything else that arose, which wasn’t much unfortunately. Thoughts as follows in no particular order…

Every thought that I caught, I asked who is up having this thought.

I didn’t feel anything of note and the next thought came in quickly so I just kept going, repeating the process.

My mind was constantly trying to understand or make a process up, find an end-game.

I consciously had to keep remembering that this was just about seeing no me and nothing more.

I brought back to mind the tug of war/confusion that I’d talked about with you and tried to feel what that did in my body but it didn’t help.

This evening I just sat with nothing, watching what came up but the session was pretty much - thought - who had that thought - no idea - thought - where did that come from - no idea etc etc

I eventually let myself have an answer (or a story) that life was living through me, was behind my eyes, was in my hyperactive mind and enjoying the ride.

This helped me try to see the possibility of no-me because I had an alternative, but I don’t think I believed it at heart. Or at least I didn’t allow myself to because i felt like I should not be thinking and making up stories.

I had a thing at work today where I got frustrated and I felt the physical reaction of faster breathing, tension in the chest etc but that was all. I tried but could not disassociate me from the physical feelings or frustration thoughts.

I brought that back up tonight but it just felt the same, physically and mentally.

Otherwise, physically I felt nothing of note in or outside of sitting.

I feel I could have used my time more wisely (effectively??) but truthfully I’ve no idea how.

If life is lifeing through me, I think she’s got caught up in the drama and I’d like her to step back and remember the peace of what she is.

Thanks for reading.

[Elad]

"Hey Elad
I’ve sat twice since we spoke. This morning I re-listened to our call and tried to sit with the confusion we discussed, along with anything else that arose, which wasn’t much unfortunately."



What creates the judgement "unfortunately" ?

As long as we judge and evaluate it gets in the way. Can you get curious about the difference between childlike curiosity (= helpful) and judgements, expectations and trying to get somewhere else, know something else (= will never work in this context)?




"Thoughts as follows in no particular order…

Every thought that I caught, I asked who is up having this thought.

I didn’t feel anything of note and the next thought came in quickly so I just kept going, repeating the process."




Maybe better WHAT then WHO. "Who" reinforces the idea of someone. But more important with the attitude then the wording.




"My mind was constantly trying to understand or make a process up, find an end-game."


Good noticing.



"I consciously had to keep remembering that this was just about seeing no me and nothing more.

I brought back to mind the tug of war/confusion that I’d talked about with you and tried to feel what that did in my body but it didn’t help."



What knows it didn't help? What is being expected to change? Again:

Innocent curiosity, looking =the way.

Trying to get something that will help and succeed = suffering




"This evening I just sat with nothing, watching what came up but the session was pretty much - thought - who had that thought - no idea - thought - where did that come from - no idea etc etc"



What makes that not good enough? Again, this judgement as opposed to curiosity is the problem. It is violent.

Can you get curious about discovering this violence inside "your" attitude? Not to judge it - that is more violence. And not to take a victimized role in the face of it. The inner victim and inner violator are two sides of the same whole. Just be curious to get to know it, see it feel it, learn to see the difference between that and an inner atmosphere of kindness.


Curiosity and looking without pushing is kind.



"If life is lifeing through me, I think she’s got caught up in the drama and I’d like her to step back and remember the peace of what she is."

Life is not caught up. Judgements are violent and create suffering.

"Thanks for reading."

You are welcome.


It is good you will be seeing Todd (and/or me in the future). It's good with face to face support with the emotional/psychological/energetic dynamics.

[Whizzer1]

Thank you for pointing to my constant judgement. And for describing it as 'violent' which serves to reinforce the point.

You have pointed to this before for me and believe it or not I did think I'd got better, but reading below there is much work still to do. I will also ask what rather than who, that makes sense.

I brought back to mind the tug of war/confusion that I’d talked about with you and tried to feel what that did in my body but it didn’t help."
What knows it didn't help? What is being expected to change? Again:
Innocent curiosity, looking =the way. Trying to get something that will help and succeed = suffering

I don't know exactly what I am expecting to change, just that it is in relation to the common instruction to 'sit with...' stuff.
As it stands I try to feel the feelings, in this example of the tug of war, or tension in my head. I think hard about what is causing that confusion to try to keep it there so as I can 'sit with...' it. And I do, but then what? Again my mind is searching for purpose but what happens is that another thought comes, I move on, and then complain I've not got anywhere.

What I gather from others is that that 'sitting with...' brings some sort of dissolution of, or resolution to, whatever it is - maybe I'm waiting for that. Either it's not coming or I've moved on to another thought and left it behind, sitting there, still not helped in any way. Does that help explain my feelings on this?

Even if I accept it as enough, I don't understand how having the constant merry go round of 'thought - don't know - thought - don't know' is going to help me drop the self. Will perseverance change this perhaps?

Life is not caught up.

It is good to know that life is not caught up in the drama - but I have 2 questions -

Does that mean it's ok to see (for now at least) that life/awareness/being as an experiencer through me - I understand it makes a duality but it may help me as a staging post?

And we discussed how I envisaged awareness as being still/calm/quiet and you asked why I presumed that. If life is not caught up in the drama, can I look at it as it is at least experiencing it? I think I'm running into my question above so I'll leave that there.

I know mind is trying to figure stuff out and I'm trying to reduce that.

Thanks as always.

[Whizzer1]

One more question please, was my turtle analogy along the 'right' lines (for the purposes of my understanding)?

I do 'know' that awareness is passive and everything is being experienced in and by it. So I think I'm asking are we all vessels for being to experience itself who've adopted person-hoods..

[Elad]

One more question please, was my turtle analogy along the 'right' lines (for the purposes of my understanding)?

I do 'know' that awareness is passive and everything is being experienced in and by it. So I think I'm asking are we all vessels for being to experience itself who've adopted person-hoods..

LU is not for abstract questions, its for pointing and looking, period.

The stuff that is hard for you to get on the level of expectations its better work with *live* . I felt it was constructive when we worked with it live, but its not gonna work in writing. So for now work on that with Todd or in Vinces group.

I suggest if you want to keep going here I give you some of the standard exercises, many of which you probably have done, and you do them again and write your most fresh genuine answers. And that if/when there is seeing and fresh shifts that you are ready to acknowledge and value, you do that too.

Ok?

[Whizzer1]

Yes that’s ok. You’re right. Let’s leave it there for LU and I’ll see how I get on going live.

Thank you 🙏

[Elad]

Yes that’s ok. You’re right. Let’s leave it there for LU and I’ll see how I get on going live.

Thank you 🙏

Good. Not sure if you meant you want to do some pointing exercsies? If you do, here is a couple to begin with:


Direct Experience

Sit quietly and relax, take your time just looking at what is in front of you for awhile. Observe how the mind is dividing and labelling every thing into objects and is embellishing them with stories about what they are.

Sitting in a room, curtains closed, you wonder what the weather is like outside. You can
think about it, look it up on the internet, watch the forecast on TV, call your mother and ask
her - or you can simply open the curtains and have a look.

Give it some time
Then, stop watching the objects as labelled objects. Just look at the seeing itself. Observe the pure process of seeing. This is direct experience (DE).




Direct Experience - Labelling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:-

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how you go.

[Whizzer1]

Sorry. I’d meant that I agreed that the written work wasn’t going cut it and so I’d leave it there with regard to the LU process. I’m not sure I’d get anything more from the exercises. But thank you for your efforts.