Greetings!

[Anastacia42]

Hi!

This is great. So. You can always *think* about the STORY of "self." It can be convenient when relating to others.

It just is. Yes. Sometimes we say "life life-ing."

Explore ‘Sense of Self’

Let’s say that you have lost your keys and you swear that you left them in your coat. You go to look and check all the pockets - the keys are not there. You swear they must be as that was the last place you remember them. You have a vivid memory of putting them there after you left the house. But when you check they are not there. At this point you can keep believing that the keys are in your pocket, or you can admit you were mistaken.

This is just like that. You may see clearly that the self is an illusion but still feel a sense of self - just like the keys. But feeling something to be true and seeing that it is or is not is different. This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations at the start and at the end.

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this SENSE of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it. Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:

Does the sense of self have a location?

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

What is found?

Loving

[Iconoclast]

Does the sense of self have a location?

No, it doesn’t have a location, it’s just a sense of being, an open awareness.

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

No, it’s an open-ended feeling.

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

I have no idea.

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

I don’t know.

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

It’s just open space.

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

Spaciousness (beingness, awareness) is not made of anything, it's empty, however a concrete sense of personal sense is made of thoughts, images.

What is found?

Sense of being is open-ended, while sense of personal self is close-ended, limited by thoughts, images, etc.

[Iconoclast]

I’ve realized that as we look, we do not see the world, we mostly see our “thoughts” about the world.
Reality vs Thought.

We do not see the character directly, we see the “thoughts” about the character, which is practically the personal “self” I guess.
….

I slowly have started to "see" the world-bits, not my thoughts about it.
At least some bits, directly.
That’s how I feel recently. Not as easily deluded by my thoughts as before.

More reality - more peace and equanimity.

[Anastacia42]

Ico, this is completely amazing, especially considering where you started.

Would you like to look at Time & Memory pointers?

And please let me know when you'd like to try "final" questions.

Time Exercise

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?


Loving,

[Iconoclast]

Tyvm Stacy!

Final questions? Well I've "intuitively" got certain things but not seen through the self yet I guess, so I might do them as I completely see.

Ok I'll do the Time and Memory exercises at the first opportunity.

btw I was trying to say "sense of personal self' in the previous post,
"Spaciousness (beingness, awareness) is not made of anything, it's empty, however a concrete sense of personal self is made of thoughts, images."

Love

Ico

[Anastacia42]

Hi Ico,

concrete sense of personal self is made of thoughts, images.

Exactly where are these images in Direct Experience?

In your thoughts, right? Your imagination!

Can you point to any Image, Sound, Sensation, Taste or Smell that "others" can verify?

If not, this is a hallucination. Can you see that?



Loving,

[Iconoclast]

Exactly where are these images in Direct Experience?
In your thoughts, right? Your imagination!

Images in our mind are not physical (sensations), therefore they cannot be observed or physically experienced, they are only mind stuff.

Can you point to any Image, Sound, Sensation, Taste or Smell that "others" can verify?

No.

If not, this is a hallucination. Can you see that?

Yes, selfallucination.
...
This comes to my mind though,
What about our (ethical) judgments about ourselves? They feel so strong.
They feel so compelling, I am still under such influences.
How can I be free from ethical evaluations about "myself" and "others"?

[Anastacia42]

What about our (ethical) judgments about ourselves? They feel so strong.
They feel so compelling, I am still under such influences.
How can I be free from ethical evaluations about "myself" and "others"?

Yep, still nothing but hallucinations.

By questioning your stressful thoughts. In my opinion, the best way to do that is The Work of Byron Katie.

https://thework.com/instruction-the-work-byron-katie/

Loving,

[Iconoclast]

Yep, still nothing but hallucinations.

True!

By questioning your stressful thoughts. In my opinion, the best way to do that is The Work of Byron Katie.

I see, I will definetely do the Work on such self-judgments.

[Iconoclast]

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?

No.

Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?

No.

Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

No.

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

It is NOT moving (anywhere).

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

No.

How long does the ‘now’ last?

It does not last, because there is no now, it is just an "idea" in the language that is used for some "specific" spatio-temporal functions.

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?

No beginning, no end.

When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

When it is “thought”. Thinking “creates” the past.

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

Past practically means some pictures being “seen” in the mind’s eye (i.e. mental pictures being "thought"). The past has no physical reality in this moment, it’s just mental, imaginary.

Past does NOT exist in reality. It is “imagined” in thought/language only, for communication and reflection purposes.

So is there actual experience of ‘time’ or thoughts about ‘time’?

No actual (physical) experience of time. There is only the FACT of thoughts about the past arising in the moment, that’s all.

[Iconoclast]

I realize that issues, problems, "difficult" things, people next door etc. are not "added" to our Life.
They are our Life. They are Reality. They are how reality manifests here.

When we approach these things with the mind (thinking), they may seem like out of context or "redundant".
When we approach reality directly, they are what they are; they are "what is".

Reality is not a "possibility".
Reality seems like a possibility only for the mind.

This moment is NOT contingent. Freedom is not contingent either. Contingency is only a mind tool, not a fact of life.
The moment is (necessary), as it is.

Being born is not a possibility for someone who is born.
It is reality.

Reality does exist.
Reality looks like an "external contingency" if we believe that we are separate from Reality.

Nothing is separate from anything.
Everything is immanently connected. As THIS here now.

Reality is actual, thoughts are not actual, they are only "tools" ready to be used in the moment, if one can use them competently and contextually.

Past is a functional tool only for those who know that it is not actual,
Future too is a functional tool only for those who know that it is a tool.

Reality cannot be approached or understood.
Reality is just lived.

And the Mind? What is it trying to do here?
The Mind is a Ghost trying to approach the House of Reality!

[Anastacia42]

Yes... now read what you wrote & substitute "self" where it is seen as equally illusory.

Do it instead of "time" and instead of "mind."

Sink into that. FEEL IT.

Loving,

[Iconoclast]

Everything happens (on time)
"because" the Sun rises (on time),
it is nobody's job or success.
It is just the Reality and its selfless Spontaneous "Virtù".

[Anastacia42]

Perfect!

Again, let me know when you want to see the "final" questions You sound "cooked."

Loving,

[Iconoclast]

OK. I see. Let's start doing it,

When is the self?
When it is “thought”. Thinking “creates” the self.

Where is the self?
It does not exist, it is just an "idea" in the language that is used for some "specific" spatio-temporal functions.

What is the self in actual experience?
The self practically means some pictures being “seen” in the mind’s eye (i.e. mental pictures being "thought"). The self has no physical reality in this moment, it’s just mental, imaginary.

The self does NOT exist in reality. It is “imagined” in thought/language only, for communication and reflection purposes.
………

Reality does exist.
Reality looks like an "external contingency" if we believe that we are a separate “self”, separate from Reality.

Reality is actual, the self is not actual, the concept of the self is only a "tool" ready to be used in the moment, if one can use it competently and contextually.

The self is a functional tool only for those who know that it is not actual,

Reality cannot be approached or understood.
Reality is just lived.

And the Self? What is it trying to do here?
The Self is a Ghost trying to approach the House of Reality!