Ready to dive in...

[ixturtle]

Perhaps a trigger can be set for Recognition of the switch between the descriptive thoughts and those that follow.

Soooo.... unfortunately that trigger would be pretty much on all the time, and of course anything constant isn't so great as an alert mechanism... but still recognition arises when it does and i am grateful.

i'm still appreciating the distinction between descriptive "about" and the everything else "about" that's responsible for the lion share of distorting. reminds me a tiny bit of vipassana practice (burmese style), where the mind stays so engaged with labeling that it doesn't have time to proliferate about the "about." t'was exhuasting really. noticing when noticing happens has a lot more ease in it.

and of course the descriptive "about" distorts too. last night there was a deepening sense of what i've read and heard many times before-- that the mind's labels chop everything up into bits, almost arbitrarily-- the curtain is part of the window but the wall (or even the desk) beside it is not. and its really all just "seeing." not even that, since seeing is another label. yet even imagining the rest of the world as one energetic movement, there is this giant label "ME" that is so darn sticky right around the body's periphery.

noticing stickiness of label is happening... and i suppose it's here until it isn't.

The process that elicits the emotion is purely thoughts about thoughts with other thought processes in the middle. ALL STORY.

and yet so freakin' compelling... or at least some of them. they seem for me to be strongest around wanting X but not having X and seeing other people with X and the resulting sense of hopelessness, self-pity and resentment. the X has changed over the years (from jordache jeans and disco records to family and spirituality) but the same formula is there.

yup, that's a sticky one too. noticing stickiness of a story is happening.. this one ebbs and flows. but even if it ebbs and flows forever, somehow that's to be OK too...

actually, as you said about the sun, in direct experience there is no ebb and flow anyway. there's the experiencing of what's here, which includes the experience of the "story" of what's here.

happy to be on this path with you vince (and rose!),
love love,
ix.

[vinceschubert]

wanting X but not having X and seeing other people with X and the resulting sense of hopelessness, self-pity and resentment. the X has changed over the years ...but the same formula is there.

This would normally be seen as an attempt to fill a lack, or emptiness, but i notice that even when i feel really good, there is a wanting for more. The self pity and resentment though, suggests a victim perspective so maybe the attempt to 'fill a hole' is closer. What resonates for you when you ask "why do I want ?"

imagining the rest of the world as one energetic movement, there is this giant label "ME" that is so darn sticky right around the body's periphery.

What happens when you imagine that the rest of the world IS you, so looking at something 'out there' is the same as looking at your hand 'out there' ?

Lovely sharing with you two too.. (not a path though, just NOW)
lovely

vince

[ixturtle]

What resonates for you when you ask "why do I want ?"

the basic answer is because there's a belief not having X implies a "missing out" or an "i'm not enough". it's no so much i want X to fill a hole, it's the belief that not having X is evidence of a hole. the physical response is a collapse/contraction of the upper belly and heart and the mental response is endless proliferation of thought. for the last few years this pattern seemed like it had dissolved quite a bit, but lately its been showing up loud and clear.

obviously the notion that "not having X is evidence of a hole" is pure thought. nothing direct there, other than the physical response and the appearance of story. honestly, i wish i had a phone ap that would go "DING: what are you believing right now?" every time i got caught up in the story/unpleasant emotion mix.

[vinceschubert]

but lately its been showing up loud and clear.

This doesn't mean that you are back where you were before the last few years. It may mean that it was suppressed before and now is being 'worked' through ?
(or not). What feels right for you ?

the physical response is a collapse/contraction of the upper belly and heart

This is the one to believe. The direct experience. If you do it intentionally, collapse the sternum area, what does it suggest to you ?

i wish i had a phone ap that would go "DING: what are you believing right now?" every time i got caught up in the story/unpleasant emotion mix.

Ha, synchronicity ? I just had this convo;
a bloke said;
I want a dE recorded device that asks in all circumstances; is this True in dE! (dE = direct experience)
i said; You've got the bits already. Just need to establish neuronal pathways & the brain will do it automatically.
he said; Okay? What are neuronal pathways?
i said; this will explain it - https://www.dropbox.com/s/mskv8uxmnmf2f ... _Being.mp4

[ixturtle]

It may mean that it was suppressed before and now is being 'worked' through ?

i always think its like a spiral (or a shape way too complicated to explain), where things are uncovered while nuances are left buried and we breathe clearer for the uncovering but then we stumble on the nuances and they turn out to be bigger than the original thing ever was and it feels like we can't breathe at all.

ixturtle wrote:the physical response is a collapse/contraction of the upper belly and heart

This is the one to believe. The direct experience. If you do it intentionally, collapse the sternum area, what does it suggest to you ?

when i do it intentionally, similar sensations arise but there isn't the story attached to the sensations, so no big deal. plus there's the sense of control: i create, i release. there's no sense of "victim".

of course, another way to look at the conditional contractions is that the mind's false stories are triggering the creation and by seeing through the story, the release is sure to follow. but this seems like more "i need to "do" something to get/get rid of something" and that's a neural pathway i'd just as soon have atrophy.

[vinceschubert]

So the difference between doing it intentionally and when it happens spontaneously is the sense of victimhood ?

[ixturtle]

So the difference between doing it intentionally and when it happens spontaneously is the sense of victimhood ?

hmmm... yes that, and the set of thoughts that trigger it and spring from it which tell a "something wrong with me/i'm missing out" story, which i guess is just more of the same victim stuff. all sounds pretty silly... but that seems about the sum of it.

[vinceschubert]

which tell a "something wrong with me/i'm missing out" story

there's a paradox here. How is is possible for you to see it as story, as a constructed concept that has unpleasant consequences, and yet you continue to believe another story that says you are helpless, totally unable to do anything except act out the script.

vince

[ixturtle]

yes... that very conundrum has been driving me crazy for quite some time-- years really, but even more so lately with all this emphasis on DE vs. "about"...

i think the issue is that i can THINK through how the story is constructed, but do i really SEE it? Sometimes yes. "Here's the DE and here's the story on top and it's obvious that the latter is unnecessary and causes all the drama/trauma." Yet, when caught up in it, there's this sense of helplessness--- AND worse, because on top of the helplessness is the judgment: why CAN'T i "do anything except act out the script".

the funny thing is the last few years of increasing spaciousness and joy relied a lot on NOT acting out the script... and thinking that "I" was DOER in that action-- my job, my opportunity, my responsibility, my "only way out," "just gotta work harder at it"... but that has been crumbling a bit since this fall-- because, as you noted earlier, there was likely some resulting repression in all that...

we've worked hard here around dismantling the idea that i'm supposed to DO something, or that i even COULD do something. or that there is an "I" TO do something. when the thought appears that i'm supposed to be doing something other than what's here, that just feels like the first 40 something years of this life...

[vinceschubert]

Yet, when caught up in it, there's this sense of helplessness--- AND worse, because on top of the helplessness is the judgment: why CAN'T i "do anything except act out the script".

This is a key.
When you find yourself "caught up in it" there comes (by habit) a "judgement", when what could happen is a Recognition, followed by an appreciation, a thanks for the noticing (the fulfillment of a previously set intention) which is the minimum condition required for the dropping of the old conditioned behavior.
Check out this video to see how it works; https://www.dropbox.com/s/mskv8uxmnmf2f ... _Being.mp4

xx vince

[vinceschubert]

http://vince-wisingup.blogspot.com.au/2 ... nment.html

[ixturtle]

Right.

Intention happens. Contraction arises. Noticing happens (when it does), followed by appreciation (when it does).

i've seen some of this happen already, at least the noticing, but as you point out the judgment generally is at the heels. appreciation of the noticing seems like a key piece to create space for via intention.

and then there's just what happens.
what's happening now?
typing, noticing light and shadow, hearing, editing, seeing, breathing, etc.

appreciated the blog you posted. ""But the difference between there just being what's happening and the sense that it's happening to you is immeasurable." Immeasurable and imaginary! Both!"

sigh...!

and where is the boundary between inside me and outside me? oh so tempting to say, SKIN, or gradually dissipating energetic field beyond skin. as she says, it all takes place in the mind.

in ten or twenty years will there be brain surgery to manually rewire the ME networks?

[vinceschubert]

in ten or twenty years will there be brain surgery to manually rewire the ME networks?

Without the me, governments, corporations, religions & parents would lose control of you(s)

But the difference between there just being what's happening and the sense that it's happening

It IS just what's happening, as well as the sense that it is ???

[ixturtle]

Without the me, governments, corporations, religions & parents would lose control of you(s)

this stirs up a lot of thinking that is just that, thinking. so i'll leave it alone for now.

It IS just what's happening, as well as the sense that it is ???

yes, that's being seen more, or perhaps more accurately, sensed (not just thinking, not quite seeing). that without the mind to divide it up, it's all just one experiencing.

the mind has some arguments-- like didn't we evolve on purpose to divide it up, isn't that not just "what happens" but also what allows the creation and perception of beauty (as well as of course piling on heaps of suffering)? i guess the point is that, as you say, some division is useful and some isn't. to hold it all lightly, means there is more freedom. i first wrote "freedom to choose", but it isn't about choice, is it? it can't be if there is no "me" to choose.

when there is a belief that life is happening TO me, the only way I can possibly feel safe is to feel that I have choices. if life is just happening, then there is no one to protect.

mind argues again: is this liberation process really about sticking one's head in the sand? if we turn off the part of the mind that takes thing personally, then everything can be hunky dory as it is... but is that truth? or is that some sort of pseudo-spiritual blindness?

mind is willing accede that it is truth (different than seeing of course) IF the outcome is less dissonance, less distortion, more love, more wisdom, blah blah blah. as if the mind gets to choose whether to put its head in the sand or not.

if that sounds negative, that's not really where i am right now. just the thoughts that are floating through...

[vinceschubert]

this stirs up a lot of thinking that is just that, thinking. so i'll leave it alone for now.

That's wisdom in action.

It IS just what's happening, as well as the sense that it is ???

If we define the 'sense' that it is, as a reaction, a 'feeling', from the senses (via mind), and it IS, as everything, including the 'sense' that it IS. ..or put it another way, What IS may not include a 'sense' that it IS, and still be 'What IS'.

when there is a belief that life is happening TO me,

For life to happen TO you, life and you would have to be separate, wouldn't you agree ?
Rebecca is an expression of Life-ing. How can it be any other way ?

if life is just happening, then there is no one to protect.

Yes, why would life-ing need to protect itself from itself ?

is this liberation process really about sticking one's head in the sand?

Quite the opposite. 'Liberation' is from the bondages that ensue from "head in sand". (not seeing things as they Are.)

but is that truth?

Tell me about this concept called Truth. Have you ever seen one ?

the mind gets to choose

It doesn't. Neither does that illusory 'self'. But choice does happen. It happens at a level of the organism, and is the result of lots of dependent conditions that were in place way before any apparent choice occurs.

if that sounds negative, that's not really where i am right now. just the thoughts that are floating through...

i didn't take it that way. We are just constructing a better story to use when it is convenient.



love

vince