ja

[domostroy]

Hi,


I'm back, with nothing to report.
Haven't had time for anything but kids and sleep the past week.


I hope you're fine,

J.

[Bananafish]

Hi Jaro. :)

Hope you're doing good, too.

What do you want now, and where do you think it is?

Best wishes,

Bananafish

[domostroy]

Hi,


still the same thing. Hoping for a shift. I don't know what I need to do or experience to make it happen. I went through lots of exercises from this forum, I don't think I need any of them anymore. They seem to be enough for most people but apparently not for me. I'm also doing the observing practice you assigned. It's pleasant, but I don't think it will result in a shift any time soon.


All the best,

J.

[Bananafish]

Hi Jaro. :)


Could you precisely describe how you are doing the observing?
Please VERY PRECISELY describe what you are doing during the practice.


Warm wishes,

Bananafish

[domostroy]

Hi,


sure. Last time I was looking at what was in front of me, which happened to be a radiator.
I tried to just look. Without trying :) Well, without any interference at all, and without actively keeping interference away.
I notice how there are impulses and thoughts to correct or "improve" looking, and other thoughts, narration etc. I try to neither get involved nor "chase them away". Moments of just seeing/looking happen, sometimes for extended periods.
Needless to say, it's all quite difficult.

[Bananafish]

Hi Jaro. :)

Moments of just seeing/looking happen, sometimes for extended periods.

Please notice it when expectation for "extended period" happen.
To be sure, "extended periods" is a thought construct, and not something t be
cared about.

Needless to say, it's all quite difficult.

Please notice when this thought appear during the practice.



Warm wishes,

Bananafish

[domostroy]

Hello Kento,

I hope you are great.

I would like to thank you for your help and guidance.
The practice you suggested was beautiful, even though I didn't really understand it at first.
The "me" interference became more and more obvious in time.
Also, I got some help lately, realizing this continued search was not necessary anymore and then everything fell into place.
A tendency to over complicate and over think (they are still active, to some extent) made it difficult to just appreciate what is here at all times.
The "find me" program was very persistent and could always find something to hang on to, even though I have seen time and time again that it's a ridiculous idea in the first place.

Anyway, once again, thank you very much,

Jaro

[Bananafish]

Hi Jaro. :)

Hope you are well, too.

Would you like to proceed to the final set of questions?

Please let me know if you have something you want to explore further.


Warm wishes,

Kento

[domostroy]

Hi Kento,

yes, I would like to proceed to the final set of questions.

Nothing comes to mind regarding further exploration, thank you.

J.

[Bananafish]

Hi Jaro. :) Sorry for the late reply.

Here are the questions. Enjoy!


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

[domostroy]

Hi Kento, thank you for your time.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

There is no such entity, and never was other than in the thoughts.

2) Share in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

The illusion shows up as and in thoughts. For a long while I thought it was somehow sensations + thoughts, but it was thoughts only. Or perhaps it was physical to some extent, I remember something dissapearing at some point from the chest area, which then became quite "empty". A bit like a muscle that's been flexed for a long time relaxing completely.
The illusion shows up as afterthoughts. Like an embellished story being told about what has already happened. "I did this" - kind of a thing, due to conditioning, language and an unquestioned assumption.
What is different now? Story or no story, the truth is obvious. Also, trust that whatever the situation, it will be taken care of. Ease in social situations, freedom from most of the typical ego stuff, not taking things personally.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

As per the end of the previous answer. Tough talk with a close person yesterday, which would cause defensiveness and counter-attacks just left me (mostly) calm and understanding, quiet for the most part.
Neither criticism nor praise doesn't affect me much anymore, like if it regarded someone else. Many small things like that. I feel much more and feelings are something I've been blocking most of my life.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

I cannot pinpoint anything in particular. "Big" things happened, especially in the beginning, but I'd say it was a process and not any one single special moment.

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?

Decision-making, choice and intention happen on impulse or start with thoughts, there is no control of either. There is no free will, no control. Things happen, that's it. I have no idea how it works, I can only theorize. In direct experience, there are thoughts, tendencies, impulses.

Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

A friend who came for a visit just left. We sat, drank coffee and talked. Things happened. Coffee was made and drank, this... organism? knows very well how to make and drink coffee. There was talking and laughter. Sometimes something (awareness? conciousness?) becomes concious of what is happening, kind of a zoom-out, and this something can notice mouth moving and words appearing as sounds. It's quite an experience when this happens, but at the same time quite ordinary somehow. This awareness, was the last refuge of the illusion. As in "I am awareness". But there's just awareness.

5 b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

I have a problem with that, but it's an academic one. Thoughts like "of course people are responsible of their actions". But how can we be, since everything happens on its own? And what people? It's powerfully conditioned to think like that. No, there is no resposability as such, just consequences.
Can't think of a good recent example, but it's the same as decision-making and lack of free will. Things happen, consequences happen. That's it.

6) Anything to add?

A grand "thank you" to my guides and the community. I'm so greatful this place exists, I lack words to describe it properly. I hope I will pass this forward somehow, give back. Maybe become a guide in the future. Thank you!

[Bananafish]

Hi Jaro, sorry for the late reply.

there's just awareness.

What is awareness? When you say "there is just awareness,"
what and where are the wind, the flowers, the birds, or the coffee?

Could you elaborate?


Warm wishes,

Kento

[domostroy]

Hi Kento, I know you are busy and there is no hurry :)

What is awareness?

Noticing, knowing of what is happening, depending on what the current focus is.

When you say "there is just awareness,"
what and where are the wind, the flowers, the birds, or the coffee?

I didn't mean there is only awareness and nothing else. I know teachers talk about it and it makes perfect sense, but that is not my experience. I meant "there's just awareness" as opposed to "I am awareness". What we call "wind", "flowers", "birds" and "coffee" do exist and show up as my experience of them as colors, sounds, softness, temperature, taste and so on.
Where are they? Hmmm. Where they seem to be. I see the keyboard and type the letters I intend to. The keys are where I expected them to be.


Best wishes,

Jaro

[Bananafish]

Hi Jaro. :)

Thanks. :) I'll forward this thread to other guides so that
they can have a look at it and ask questions.

Bes wishes,

Kento