Requesting Ghata as guide

[JavaJeff]

Hi Jeff,

I guess I don't know it for sure. I am being a little loose in terminology, and assigning "intention" to a biological process that is designed for self-preservation.

Well, I would call it assuming something. The intention cannot be found in direct experience.

It is the same as assuming an I.

OK. I can buy that.

Have a fresh look: Is there anything or anybody intending to wake up? How come it feels like it?

Sending love,
Ghata

LOL, I was about to answer your first question, "Is there anybody intending to wake up?" with "No....but it sure feels like there is!" Then I saw your second question: "How come it feels like it?"

This is a really good question. Maybe the answer is just "Because." I can see no reason why there is this feeling that there is a self; why I require there be one who intends to awaken. I have read various articles on why there might be this idea of self, from an evolutionary perspective. Those make good sense. But even from those articles it is clear that it is an illusion, an abstraction, and that reality is different.

In the end, maybe it just doesn't make good sense to spend all this time wondering why. The Buddha addressed similar questions in the Ananda Sutta, SN 44.10, "On Self, No Self, and Not-self," by remaining silent. As I understand it, his silence was meant to minimize confusion and to direct the asker back to the more important thing: how to eliminate suffering in this lifetime.

[Ghata]

Hi Jeff

I had to smile when I read your answers. Yes, the question why can't be answered.

"How come" was aiming at, what processes make it look like there is somebody intending to wake up. Be curious. Don't think the feeling shouldn't be there. It is alright.

Explore it - what is happening when the feeling of "I am intending to awaken" is there?

Sending love, Ghata

[JavaJeff]

Hi Jeff

I had to smile when I read your answers. Yes, the question why can't be answered.

"How come" was aiming at, what processes make it look like there is somebody intending to wake up. Be curious. Don't think the feeling shouldn't be there. It is alright.

Explore it - what is happening when the feeling of "I am intending to awaken" is there?

Sending love, Ghata

The process that makes it look like there is someone intending to wake up is the same process that makes it seem like there is someone at all. It is believing the content of thought. There is a thought of "I am." Direct experience shows that this is a thought; the thought itself is there. But the content is not to be trusted.

When the feeling "I am intending to awaken" comes...I must recognize that it is just a thought. "I am intending to awaken" is an intention, which as we just discussed is a thought. And I cannot trust the content of that thought! The thought is real and it is there, which is OK...but I must not latch on to the content of the thought and believe in the contents.

Using sight, hearing, touch, taste or smell, no self-that-intends-to-awaken can be found.

[Ghata]

Hi Jeff,

Right. Did you come to this by using memory and logical conclusion or direct looking?
If you came to it by using logic, please have a fresh look.

Sending love, Ghata

[JavaJeff]

Good morning!

I arrived at both conclusions by looking directly. But just to be safe I did them again, and got the same result.

"I am" is a thought that often arises when an action occurs, or a sensation is sensed, or a thought is thought. There must be a do-er behind those things, right? :-) And that do-er has to be a Self. "I". Yet when it is looked for, it's never there.

"I am intending to awaken" is an intentional thought. Just like with other thoughts, when a Self or an "I" is looked for, it cannot be found.

Jeff

[Ghata]

Hi Jeff,

"I am intending to awaken" is an intentional thought. Just like with other thoughts, when a Self or an "I" is looked for, it cannot be found.

Who is seeing that the self cannot be found and intending to do something is a thought? Have a fresh look again. Where can this entity be found?

Sending love,
Ghata

[JavaJeff]

Hi Jeff,

"I am intending to awaken" is an intentional thought. Just like with other thoughts, when a Self or an "I" is looked for, it cannot be found.

Who is seeing that the self cannot be found and intending to do something is a thought? Have a fresh look again. Where can this entity be found?

Sending love,
Ghata

I don't think there is a Who that is seeing. If there was, THAT would be the self. Instead, there is just seeing. Or shall I say, it is seen that there is no self to be found; it is seen that there is no self which intends to awaken.

It is also seen that there are thoughts that occur, which carry the idea, "I want to wake up."

[Ghata]

Hi Jeff,

I don't think there is a Who that is seeing.

Thinking that there is no who won't help. The gate can only be found in the direct first-hand experience.

It is also seen that there are thoughts that occur, which carry the idea, "I want to wake up."

Where is the entity 'I' noticing this?

[JavaJeff]

Hi Jeff,

I don't think there is a Who that is seeing.

Thinking that there is no who won't help. The gate can only be found in the direct first-hand experience.

A figure of speech. There is no who, no self that is seeing.

;quote]

It is also seen that there are thoughts that occur, which carry the idea, "I want to wake up."

Where is the entity 'I' noticing this?[/quote]
I don't know. There isn't a findable entity doing the noticing. The thoughts occur, and they are noticed.

[Ghata]

Hi Jeff,

so where is the I?

Now it is your turn to prove that it exists. Do whatever you can to prove that there is indeed an I, thinking, experiencing, choosing, deciding, acting,

I aam looking forward to your findings.

Sending love,
Ghata

[JavaJeff]

Hi Jeff,

so where is the I?

Now it is your turn to prove that it exists. Do whatever you can to prove that there is indeed an I, thinking, experiencing, choosing, deciding, acting,

I aam looking forward to your findings.

Sending love,
Ghata

This is precisely what I have been doing for the past 5 months! And before that too, in Sept 2015 when I was working with Sandra. I have tried very hard and I have not been able to find any separate I that controls anything. Stuff just arises. Sensations arise. Thoughts arise. More thoughts arise in response to those sensations and thoughts. None of it is in "my" control.

[Ghata]

I have tried very hard and I have not been able to find any separate I that controls anything. Stuff just arises. Sensations arise. Thoughts arise. More thoughts arise in response to those sensations and thoughts. None of it is in "my" control.

What is the doubt?

Sending love, Ghata

[JavaJeff]

I have tried very hard and I have not been able to find any separate I that controls anything. Stuff just arises. Sensations arise. Thoughts arise. More thoughts arise in response to those sensations and thoughts. None of it is in "my" control.

What is the doubt?

Sending love, Ghata

There is no doubt. I have searched beyond any reasonable doubt. Of course it can still seem that there is a controller, a do-er, and one who seeks and awaits awakening. But it is known that the reason for the seeming, is due to listening to content of thought. No actual content of experience has ever shown a self.

[Ghata]

Thank you, Jeff.

You seem very clear that the I is an illusion. What is missing?

Sending love,
Ghata

P.S. P.S. I will have to take a break as a guide for probably several months, beginning Jan. 16th. Would you like to continue with another guide or go on a break yourself?

[JavaJeff]

Nothing is missing other than the fireworks and jaw-dropping feeling of awe that were promised. :-)

I saw your post on the FB group about your going on hiatus. I don't feel now is the time for me to take a break. But I have some ideas on what could be next for me. Should we take this to PM? Or just air it out here?

Love, jeff